This thread is opened to discuss priorities in building up a tank.
Apart from the obvious (decent armor, normal jewels and a health sword to get you by), which are the important items to invest on and which sequence is the best? That is, of course, in case you dont get a drop and you have to plan buying and building them up.
Boss jewels, talismans, augmentations until we get a good one, overenchants, etc.
As far as bang for your buck, get active reflect on a health c grade weapon. Was a game changer for me. While talisman, boss jewelry is great, it's rather expensive in comparison. Dual class and sub skills felt like a fairly large jump in power as well.
Edit: The most important thing is levels, priority one.
My Sigel SK is 92/Dual Tyrr 90/Subs 80/80. So i am done for now with Subs-Dual.
The C-Grade weapon with Health SA should be augmented with High Grade Stones lvl 86 or something else?
Other than active reflect, what other augmentation you think is nice for Sigels?
Any lvl 76 or higher life stone can give you the highest level of Reflect Damage augment.
There are really only a handful of augments that would be consider "good."
Here is my list of augments worth keeping in order of best to acceptable (note: opinions vary).
Passive Reflect Damage - arguably the best out there
Active Reflect Damage - on a secondary weapon (buff stick)
Active Reflect Resistance - on a secondary weapon (requires R grade or higher LS)
Passive Dual Might - increases physical PvP damage by 5%
Passive Clarity - decrease skill MP consumption by 10%
Flash - same as archers flash (requires R grade life stone)
Undying Will - can be used at 20% HP or less (requires R grade life stone)
Dispiration - same as revelation skill (requires R grade life stone)
Some other augments I might consider keeping if I was running out of adena:
Chance Heal - chance to heal when taking damage (had a long time ago, doesn't heal a whole lot but not bad for a tank)
+1 Str or +1 Con - requires a top grade life stone
A high (30+) crit augment.
To address your other questions; without knowing what your means are (how much money you are willing to spend) its hard to say. Assuming you are an average player then I would say you need to work on building a well rounded char that can participate well in all content (according to your level).
As a 92 this is what I would work on (in no particular order):
Armor - +3/+4 TW Hvy Set 60/60/60 while saving for R95 OR a +6 TW Hvy Set 120/120/120 that will last you to R99 (I am a huge advocate of +6 Hvy Sets because of the OP bonus)
Jewels - CoC Earrings and Rings and a Frintezza with the goal of getting Ist/Oct in the future
Weapon - +4 Requiem or Apoc Cutter with Health & Haste SA's, 300 Element. this is all you will EVER need as a tank unless u can get a Dark R99 Weap or a Tauti Weap; don't let anyone else convince you other wise.
Misc - Work towards getting a Hellfire talisman then WAIT until you are rich before you try and upgrade, get 3x lv1 Legendary Con tats. Get a +3 Con Pendant, top grade PvP defense belt, and a +4 HP shirt (or an Ist/Oct shirt). Start working on getting ALL your passives to +5 (any higher at your level isn't cost effective).
This is assuming you are a normal player. If you have unlimited funds then there is a different route to take :).
I guess, the Health C is for not losing the extra life when casting the buff right?
I'm currently in Requiem event, but 3*60, which I'll keep until 95. I've already bought my Seraph Helmet, Gauntlets and Boots and planning to get the Breastplate from Oly rewards
Also I'm close to try the craft on the Apo Cutter and get a Vesper Cutter as a future PvP weapon
Are the Lv1 Leg CON Tats worth getting? I've just thought to wait till I can afford the best ones
health C with passive reflect would be good for defensive, non attacking tank. i think if you wanted to attack you could try at least an S grade with element... but augmenting anything higher is very expensive.
any other active augments are fine on c grade weapons.
aside from the obvious health loss, it's good to pick light weight items like heathens book and hole of glory.
another good augment to consider keeping is Party return.
sure it's running away, but he who cries and runs away lives to run away another day.
Take as much CON as u can (bracelets/shirts/hats/dyes), use C-S80 grade weapon and try get passive reflect on it (for S80 add pvp option AFTER u will get passive reflect). To 95 try collect adena for r95 hvy+6 set (shield is not a must) cuz its kinda enought set till u will get ur R99 bless/dark one (if u will ever get). Enchant ur basic skills for how much u can (defense ones, like armor mastery, shield mastery, resistant mastery, not sword mastery). Don't forget to lvl up ur dual as much as u can, that 95lvl dual boost is kinda great.
So, ur goal is a HIGH CON tank, with oe defensive passives, two reflects, r95 hvy set+6, if u gonna reach it u gonna be even more than avarage tank :)
I guess, the Health C is for not losing the extra life when casting the buff right?
I'm currently in Requiem event, but 3*60, which I'll keep until 95. I've already bought my Seraph Helmet, Gauntlets and Boots and planning to get the Breastplate from Oly rewards
Also I'm close to try the craft on the Apo Cutter and get a Vesper Cutter as a future PvP weapon
Are the Lv1 Leg CON Tats worth getting? I've just thought to wait till I can afford the best ones
Too much things and no adena XD
Here is the thing about CON dyes, unless you get lvl 5 dyes, they take away from STR. Even though CON is currently the most important stat for a tank, STR is still important. So you will want to try and maximize CON while minimizing STR loss. That is why I recommend Legendary level 1 Con dyes, because they only take away 1 STR per dye (3x set will be +9 CON -3 STR). Additionally a full set of these (30 dyes) will only run you about 100 mil (give or take a bit). Your next option would be Legendary lvl 4 Con dyes (+5 CON -1 Str). But even these start to get unreasonably expensive for the average player. Using KE's to get them you are going to pay between 1.5 and 2 bil for all 30. Then we get to lvl 5 dyes which will cost between 3 bil and 9 bil for a set of 30......
About your weapon choice; if you are planning to get a PvP weap and a PvE weap then a Vesper is NOT the way to go. However, if you want a good weapon that will work for both, then a Vesper Cutter w/health is a great choice.
Here is the thing, skill damage is only minimally related to p. attack. So for example, a +3 Forgotten blade w/SA, 300 ele, and PvP will do about the same damage as a +15 Blessed Apoc Cutterw/2x SA, and 300 ele (damage difference is literally LESS than 5%).
So why not a s80 cutter? Because it isn't necessary and it will COST a lot more to get a good augment. Each augment cost about 600k on a s80 Vesper weap (gemstone cost + removal fee). The lowest S grade cost under 100k per augment attempt. Unless you are insanely lucky you are going to go through hundreds (if not thousands) of stones before you get what you want.
So basically, if you want a weap that works fine for bothe PvE and PvP, get a Vesper cutter with health and 300 element. If you are going to get 2x weapons, get an FB w/health and whatever R grade weapon you want.
Interesting fact about the tats, I'll consider it in the near future. What do you think about 2x (+3CON/-1STR) 1x(+3STR/-1DEX) and a +3CON pendant? That way I'll be over 90 CON for shield block without losing STR
I know P.Atk is not really a factor. I prefer Vesper and Icarus over FG just for appereance (I take it into consideration since it could be an end game weapon for me :) ) and there is a quest for Vesper weapons. Maybe I'll just sell the Apo Cutter (if I manage to craft it), and use a Vesper Cutter for both
Remember that now Vesper is S80 :P
Thanks for the feedback
So for example, a +3 Forgotten blade w/SA, 300 ele, and PvP will do about the same damage as a +15 Blessed Apoc Cutterw/2x SA, and 300 ele (damage difference is literally LESS than 5%).
Can you explain this??Nice topic btw and i have some question too as noob human sk...
-What jwl i must take from CoC this one for para or stun?(i mean for lighting strike)?
-Armor for PvE must be defence or attack?Because you sayed that you should go for con tank but i think this is for pvp tank at instances you need some str to make them fast...(solo one)...At group instance you always have healer so some low dif at con does not matter..
Can you explain this??Nice topic btw and i have some question too as noob human sk...
-What jwl i must take from CoC this one for para or stun?(i mean for lighting strike)?
-Armor for PvE must be defence or attack?Because you sayed that you should go for con tank but i think this is for pvp tank at instances you need some str to make them fast...(solo one)...At group instance you always have healer so some low dif at con does not matter..
Regarding skill damage, most physical skills in L2 work on the formula "xxxx power added to p. attack." Some classes benefit ALOT from having high p. attack while other classes do not.
So for example, the skill "Justice Punishment" has a skill power of 25884. If your p. attack is 5000 that will put your total at 30884. If your p. attack is 10000 (pretty hard to get 10k p. attack on a tank) that will put total at 35884. So technically, achieving 5k MORE p. attack will only result in 14% more skill power HOWEVER, the tank with 10k p. attack WILL NOT hit 14% harder than the tank with 5k p. attack. This is because of all the other factors that effect damage such as element, pvp bonuses, target defense, damage variation, etc.
Here is a link to a test Juji did about the relationship between skill damage and p. attack on tyrr warriors. http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=242409
In the test you can see that Juji performed the skill mega strike using a variety of weapons. Pay close attention to the first test (damage without momentum).
The first weapon he used was a Short Sword (8 p. attack); total character p. attack 430. Skill damage was 2183.
The last weapon he used in this test was an R99 cutter (605 p. attack); total character p. attack 2211. Skill damage was 2501.
Do the math real quick and this is what you get; raising p. attack by 514% resulted in a damage increase of ONLY 14%.........
The damage is even less when you compare S grade versus R/R95/R99 (S only did 7% less damage than R99).Now when you factor in the previously mention variables, the damage is even less AND, tanks already do less damage than Tyrrs so the damage variation is additionally lower. If you want to see for yourself, go buy a Short Sword from the NPC shop and test it against the highest grade sword you can get your hands on (as long as it's clean; no element/sa). You will see that the SKILL damage difference between them is negligible.
As to your other question, I think Lightning Strike is considered a paralyze skill but I could be wrong, I honestly don't know (I'm an HK). As to armor type, the difference between attack and defense is really small. TBH you can probably go with attack type and do fine for everything. My initial opinion was aimed towards endgame PvP/PvE.
As accessory should one shillen templar have?Con or pdef or str?
Con or Str, your choice (I would go con). A tanks strength comes from shield defense, not pdef. That is why a Tyrr can have more pdef but a tank will take less damage (hint: con increase shield defense rate).