This is a friendly reminder that the use of third-party programs is unacceptable in Lineage II. Some of you may have heard of situations where seemingly half a clan has been removed from the game. Please remember that if you share a clan with someone that uses third-party programs (aka 'botting'), it's possible that your whole clan will be examined, including yourself. We are doing our best to clean out these sinners and give honest players the advantage.
Yup, there are many who botted up to 84/85 and now do not NEED to bot anymore, but still enjoy their ill-gotten advantage every day. I really hope the devs do not raise the max lvl for mains anytime soon, because with the limit right now it allows non-cheating players to get closer.
so if you are in a clan that some ppl are botting and you dont know this .you may be banned like them !!! This is no justice!!! Its like in real life one of your best friend make an illegal action and you go to jail with him !!! :D
Yup, there are many who botted up to 84/85 and now do not NEED to bot anymore, but still enjoy their ill-gotten advantage every day. I really hope the devs do not raise the max lvl for mains anytime soon, because with the limit right now it allows non-cheating players to get closer.
Its not like there are none Legit 84/85 anyway
And to all the ppl cheering to that idea, as someone said before , 99,99% of the clans have one or a few botters , which u cant change and its not our job but GMs job to keep them from botting , so banning someone cuz one guy in a clan is botting is a big lol , but ofc typical NC soft , company with best Support ever !
Btw will we get Log in "tips" how to find out that some random guy u picked up by party matching is a bot or a non bot? Becouse now u say that partying ppl u dont trust 100% ( which u cant if u party random people, which is required sometimes in a dead game like this ) can clearly lead to a bann?
isnt that the same thing regimes like the 3rd reich, stalins russia and maos china were doing? jail the whole family if someone was harming the laws?
thats not how the problem is to solve, there are other ways than just basically forcing legit players to play clanless since now they are in perma danger of getting banned if someone of their clanmates messes it up.
edit: dont get this wrong, i am not against banning botters at all, i am just against banning without evidence (sharing the same clantagg isnt an evidence). clans in lineage 2 consist of 150, 200 players sometimes. sorry but nobody can be 100% sure that none of that persons is botting. its good ncsoft steps up and wants to do something against the obvious problems. but this is just the very wrong way
But i hope that innocent people will be spared. Those who are obvious must be banned.
Just waiting for announcement on my server that toons have been banned and i hope that the ones i caught are amongst them. I will run around and look at their usual spots.
isnt that the same thing regimes like the 3rd reich, stalins russia and maos china were doing? jail the whole family if someone was harming the laws?
thats not how the problem is to solve, there are other ways than just basically forcing legit players to play clanless since now they are in perma danger of getting banned if someone of their clanmates f***s it up.
edit: dont get this wrong, i am not against banning botters at all, i am just against banning without evidence (sharing the same clantagg isnt an evidence). clans in lineage 2 consist of 150, 200 players sometimes. sorry but nobody can be 100% sure that none of that persons is botting. its good ncsoft steps up and wants to do something against the obvious problems. but this is just the very wrong way
Hum English is not my nativa language, so I could miss something in our post or in Sace's one.
As far as I understand, Sace said that If NCsoft find some players using 3rd party programs in your clan, then the whole clan will be examinated.
Is it not the same way now about Justice and criminality ? If you best friend kills somebody, the police will speak with you and watch what you were doing, because you are in the 1st circle : You know the man :)
I know there are a couple, but those who really got there 100% legit are VERY rare. Most of those who got there without resorting to botting themselves at the very least had the benefit of getting help from those who did, for example via getting powerlvld, sharing botted up support classes or by getting easy access to good stuff (things are so much easier if your clan has control over good xp spots, epics etc.). You don't have to cheat yourself to benefit from cheating. Even simple stuff like sharing an account so somebody else in a different time zone plays your toon and lvls you up while you sleep is a very dark grey area in my opinion and I know a LOT of people who do this and had their lvl suddenly skyrocket once their support class toon joined a big pvp clan.
It looks like there is some misunderstanding. The original statement simply says "it's possible that your whole clan will be examined, including yourself." Examined, not automatically banned.
ok i hope is true you check all the clans especially in luna, is no a problem for me if you check my clan and i really hope you will check a soviet clan, i think they need a big wash to be very clean :)
It looks like there is some misunderstanding. The original statement simply says "it's possible that your whole clan will be examined, including yourself." Examined, not automatically banned.
The innocent will be spared!
Hope that helps!
Examine away!
Something tells me Order of the Badger will finally rise to its rightful superpower station.
I know there are a couple, but those who really got there 100% legit are VERY rare. Most of those who got there without resorting to botting themselves at the very least had the benefit of getting help from those who did, for example via getting powerlvld, sharing botted up support classes or by getting easy access to good stuff (things are so much easier if your clan has control over good xp spots, epics etc.). You don't have to cheat yourself to benefit from cheating. Even simple stuff like sharing an account so somebody else in a different time zone plays your toon and lvls you up while you sleep is a very dark grey area in my opinion and I know a LOT of people who do this and had their lvl suddenly skyrocket once their support class toon joined a big pvp clan.
Its not the "big clans" problems that some clans just xp on bad spots cuz they dont want to pvp for it, which actually is the meaning of this game btw ... and if u see it like that, then everyone profit from "unlegits" if u buy ur mats from a Farmer in giran, or if u have a zaken from the previous raidfarmers or like 500 other things
Exp with shared or previous bottet accounts? lol its not even hard to make an support now 78 or 80 legit with all that vitality , noob buffs , top gear beeing cheap as hell etc etc etc
Another question, what if u have a guy in ur party u absolutely dont know and he use some kind of 3rd party programm? How are u supose to know it? I mean its not like they have a title "hey i use 3rd party programm, party me on ur own risk "
Another question, what if u have a guy in ur party u absolutely dont know and he use some kind of 3rd party programm? How are u supose to know it? I mean its not like they have a title "hey i use 3rd party programm, party me on ur own risk "
Short version: yes, it sucks. I do not know how to fix it.
Long version: That is a problem, true. I guess the only thing you can do is "know thy clan", as this thread suggests. If you are in a big pvp clan, chances are simply higher that somebody uses 3rd party program, be it botting or stuff like aim/auto cp spam/whatever tool people use these days. You simply take a risk if you party with somebody you do not know 100%. Don't blame NCSoft, blame the one you party with.
Not much you can do about it except minimize the chances by partying only with people you know for a long time and where you can be reasonably sure that they do not do it. People in "pve" clans have it a bit easier, because the ultra-competitive players (i.e. the ones who usually use that stuff) simply don't go there in large numbers, because people there usually don't WANT to bot and because there usually is no reason to use aim, cp spam etc. Yes, I know - every clan has a botter at some time, some pvp players use pve clans to lvl up in peace before they join a pvp clan again, and quite a few of those bot, safe in the knowledge that there are no war tags. But overall the chances are much lower that a clannie cheats.
If you e.g. are on Phoenix and in Nova or FS, you KNOW that there are botters around, it's simply a fact. So you're willingly taking a risk, as much as it sucks that some guy can get you banned even though you yourself have done nothing wrong.
There is other stuff you can do - e.g. never share accounts. I know of people with support class accounts (bd, sws, buffer) who share their accounts with others who play at different times. Like "hey, I could use your doomcryer in my party later, give me the login info, then I box you and you get a bit of free xp". Don't do it - you have no control over who else is in that party, and you also don't know if your "friend" doesn't maybe use a bot program because he is too lazy to manually control your toon.
To me this all looks like NC soft is to lazy or incompetent to fix the problem by themself so they use the "if someone in ur party or ur clan " bot u can get banned for it aswell ...
Why not simply make it Serverwide? If someone on ur server bot, all the server might get banned ? Or just say u throw random banns until all botters are killed by players or just gave up?
Maybe give a few players GM rights which then actually can run around and bann randomly, that would be atleast some fun !
Anyway its to late its like kicking a death horse, why u "try to save " the game now , why not 5 years ago? Or is it like some ppl said before just a cheap way to get rid of some players ( legit or not it seems ) to merge servers again?
That announcement may change something but in the same way it can be just cool announcement without special action.
We know that using 3rd programs is VERY popular, boting as well.
If you want find bot, just go to Catas.
If you want find evidence of 3rd programs, go to any serious Castle Siege.
I would say If you pick up from top clans 10 accidental people 83+ and check logs from past, chance that even 1 was NOT cheating last 1 year is .... minimal...
But do you think that NC is going examine 15000-25000 accounts?
About clan penalty - don't try fool here anyone.
NC haven't said they going punish all people in clan.
If you were in fully botted clan but you haven't shared account you should sleep well (assume that you are legit one) ...
Now they just remind basic policy - do not cheat.
Why so fuzz?
Surprised?
P.S. Even if NC does it only to wipe one server, it mean that at least 2000 accounts were fully artificial ... Any of you want play on such server with 2000 bots running around you?!
I wonder how much it would cost the top clans on Teon if GMs where to go to a castle siege where most of them are and raise everyones CP by 50k. Imagine the autospammed pots lol.
I wonder how much it would cost the top clans on Teon if GMs where to go to a castle siege where most of them are and raise everyones CP by 50k. Imagine the autospammed pots lol.
lol
they should do that and fraps it
everybody would lag out and dc because of all the cp pot animations
I wonder how much it would cost the top clans on Teon if GMs where to go to a castle siege where most of them are and raise everyones CP by 50k. Imagine the autospammed pots lol.
To me this all looks like NC soft is to lazy or incompetent to fix the problem by themself so they use the "if someone in ur party or ur clan " bot u can get banned for it aswell ...
Hi Fightgirlx,
Just to clarify again, Sace's post does not mean if you are in a clan or party with a botter, you will be banned. She is trying to let people know that associating with botters will likely bring the GM's to examine your account. If you are playing by the rules, you have no worries. :)
This is a friendly reminder that the use of third-party programs is unacceptable in Lineage II. Some of you may have heard of situations where seemingly half a clan has been removed from the game. Please remember that if you share a clan with someone that uses third-party programs (aka 'botting'), it's possible that your whole clan will be examined, including yourself. We are doing our best to clean out these sinners and give honest players the advantage.
Just to clarify again, Sace's post does not mean if you are in a clan or party with a botter, you will be banned. She is trying to let people know that associating with botters will likely bring the GM's to examine your account. If you are playing by the rules, you have no worries. :)
-Moxie
Well, wish this become real cause atm we see bots and more bots, detaged toons botting during all the week and re-joining clans just to do sieges.
Smart bots are already 83-85lvl.NC soft doing this only to scare the rest of us to not bot,so we can't never hit these lvls,so the "dominating" clans keep "dominate"
Smart bots are already 83-85lvl.NC soft doing this only to scare the rest of us to not bot,so we can't never hit these lvls,so the "dominating" clans keep "dominate"
QQ,you'll never hit 85.
Oh come on now...
Really??? REALLY???
At least when someone makes the rather uninformed argument that bots exist because NCSoft wants them, makes money on them or gets a cut of Adena sales is one thing, but this is just plain dumb. At least the former paranoid rant has the ring of being remotely possible, but to think that NCSoft would care if the current political situation inside the game was maintained or not is just plain crazy.
(BTW: When I say "remotely possible" I mean like its possible like its possible that the moon landings were faked or the Elvis is alive somewhere in Idaho.)
At least when someone makes the rather uninformed argument that bots exist because NCSoft wants them, makes money on them or gets a cut of Adena sales is one thing, but this is just plain dumb. At least the former paranoid rant has the ring of being remotely possible, but to think that NCSoft would care if the current political situation inside the game was maintained or not is just plain crazy.
(BTW: When I say "remotely possible" I mean like its possible like its possible that the moon landings were faked or the Elvis is alive somewhere in Idaho.)
Sorry hun,i live in a 3rd world country,where the education lvl,doesn't give me the potention to understand your post.
Please,show understanding and speak in the mongolian language of L2.
I didn't even understand if you are with me or against me!
Lets say 4 rounds of banning the bots.
Lets say you do it yourself or GMs help you.
Lets say you banned all who used 3rd party programm.
The question is. How long its going to take for some cool programmer to break your system and let all his friends who worked with him to start using Newer Version of 3rd party programm?
I mean, What are the chances for US (not USA) legit players see the whole Aden Land free from bots?
Just to clarify again, Sace's post does not mean if you are in a clan or party with a botter, you will be banned. She is trying to let people know that associating with botters will likely bring the GM's to examine your account. If you are playing by the rules, you have no worries. :)
This is a friendly reminder that the use of third-party programs is unacceptable in Lineage II. Some of you may have heard of situations where seemingly half a clan has been removed from the game. Please remember that if you share a clan with someone that uses third-party programs (aka 'botting'), it's possible that your whole clan will be examined, including yourself. We are doing our best to clean out these sinners and give honest players the advantage.
This is a friendly reminder that the use of third-party programs is unacceptable in Lineage II.
lol? could u be more hypocrits? and btw in some cases, just because u ban one whole party doesn't mean that if 5 chars in that party bots all must bot; just another friendly reminder
This is a friendly reminder that the use of third-party programs is unacceptable in Lineage II. Some of you may have heard of situations where seemingly half a clan has been removed from the game. Please remember that if you share a clan with someone that uses third-party programs (aka 'botting'), it's possible that your whole clan will be examined, including yourself. We are doing our best to clean out these sinners and give honest players the advantage.
+1 for ban all the bots and let the game become as we learn it on its first years. but will you ban every bot seen ? i doubt :/
lol? could u be more hypocrits? and btw in some cases, just because u ban one whole party doesn't mean that if 5 chars in that party bots all must bot; just another friendly reminder
If you are in pty of 5 bots you really have problem
Ohh man yeahhh
It's so owsome, half of my clan including CL was banned today )))
. . .and just on 28.01.10 01:00-03:00 AM GMT+2 You did mass check of my clan.
.how do I know? . .let me seeee. . .ohh I remember... cuz I was at that time on-line :D
You ported my m8ts that was exping with me in Varka.
at first PP (man, he thought that server lagggzzz as allways), after that you ported PP and SE togather (rly they berely healed me after some time left as soon as they realized that they R far away from me). . ..You imagine that ? I got 7 mobs on me and at that time my PP and SE shout right in my ear in Vent: WTF with this freeShard?
and finaly You deloged PP :rolleyes:
whole night I read in clan chat about ports and delogs. specialy it was "funny" to hear from pty that tried to survive on green spot under mobs, without deloged m8ts that play support ;)
I thought that Vent will fall down from what I was hearing from my clanm8ts
good job mista GM
so all your play with me and my clan on spots without showing yourself ended with BANN of the only clan that tried to make that dead Luna 2side server.
np
now you got your dead 1side Luna (600+ on-line including traders????) as a reward in your HolyW.A.R. against Windmills.
lol? could u be more hypocrits? and btw in some cases, just because u ban one whole party doesn't mean that if 5 chars in that party bots all must bot; just another friendly reminder
I think NCsoft needs to translate these announcements into different languages because people don't seem to comprehend that well.
This is a friendly reminder that the use of third-party programs is unacceptable in Lineage II. Some of you may have heard of situations where seemingly half a clan has been removed from the game. Please remember that if you share a clan with someone that uses third-party programs (aka 'botting'), it's possible that your whole clan will be examined, including yourself. We are doing our best to clean out these sinners and give honest players the advantage.
It doesn't say "Please remember that if you share a clan with someone that uses third-party programs (aka 'botting'), it's possible that your whole clan will be BANNED, including yourself". For those of you that don't know what EXAMINE means in this context, it means your account will be checked/assessed/observed. If you need more definition than that go look it up in the dictionary...but here's the Cliff notes version of it....examined and banned are two different words that have two completely different meanings. Only the individual 3rd party program users should be worried about this. This is a friendly reminder...
i'l believe it when i see it, and after 5 years 10 months and over 12 updates i havent seen any impact on gameplay by the banstick.
this is merely a clever marketing ruse, to indicate the change of staff to the game, to draw attention to whatever updates are planned for the game in the future.
when each server holds and shows tens of thousands of connections at a time, and they ban a thousand bots, they can post numbers that make people ph34r. however in L2's case we only have an average of a thousand players per server, and we all know more than half of that is bots be they PVE bots or PVP bots. so banning a thousand players per server will both be necessary and understandably important for the future of the game.
if NC was at all listening to the players (be they who they are now legit or not) they'd shut the game down by banning every single player on every single server. from the get go L2 was not made to be accepted by North America or Europe. it was made for Koreans and to koreans it is popular and profitable. save us all the time and energy and stop BullHonking us, shut the game down its not worth the internet space.
i'l believe it when i see it, and after 5 years 10 months and over 12 updates i havent seen any impact on gameplay by the banstick.
i know in which clan he is, but i hope ncsoft have did something against the soviet clan too and not only against his clan, else ncsoft only confirmed they work for this soviet clan
the banstick came down a total of 4 times, affecting 4 servers. of the 11 servers do you think this really impacted any of the some 11k players of L2 world wide? they who were banned came right back, and some have sprung up into hero spots since.
the banstick came down a total of 4 times, affecting 4 servers. of the 11 servers do you think this really impacted any of the some 11k players of L2 world wide? they who were banned came right back, and some have sprung up into hero spots since.
luna is different with the last ban you can be sure the luna population will decrease of nearly 100 people, i know some guys in this clan if they feeling ncsoft work for the soviet clan, they will leave or transfert to another server
the banstick came down a total of 4 times, affecting 4 servers. of the 11 servers do you think this really impacted any of the some 11k players of L2 world wide? they who were banned came right back, and some have sprung up into hero spots since.
Yes and so what. If they continue to cheat then they'll be banned again..and again...and again.....
I wonder how much it would cost the top clans on Teon if GMs where to go to a castle siege where most of them are and raise everyones CP by 50k. Imagine the autospammed pots lol.
Obviously that would be hilarious... but I know when I am pvping I am not paying attention to the amount of CP I have, just the percentage. I would be like "**** whoever is hitting me is doing the same amount of dmg that I am potting back" and not realizing I have 50k
If you are in pty of 5 bots you really have problem
no i don't party with bots, i hate bots, u can see all my posts, was just trying to say what some other ppl got banned just for tryin to get better xp
I think NCsoft needs to translate these announcements into different languages because people don't seem to comprehend that well.
It doesn't say "Please remember that if you share a clan with someone that uses third-party programs (aka 'botting'), it's possible that your whole clan will be BANNED, including yourself". For those of you that don't know what EXAMINE means in this context, it means your account will be checked/assessed/observed. If you need more definition than that go look it up in the dictionary...but here's the Cliff notes version of it....examined and banned are two different words that have two completely different meanings. Only the individual 3rd party program users should be worried about this. This is a friendly reminder...
thank u, i didn't noticed :)
p.s. please come on franz server to examinate that as well
I'm not saying i'm not happy, every banned bot is a good bot, but as always, there is the BUT.
Luna is overrun by russian "players" who are so drastically overbotted, that 2 their parties can take out my entire ally (legit ally I might add). By destroying WAR you just killed Luna's last hope ever to be able to stand up to russian mob (I hope i constructed this sentence correctly lol).
And this is not the first time it happened. This is like the third time that an opposition against russians has been banned. One (including myself) could get the feeling that you are actually doing the russian's bidding... Even moreso, I don't recall any bigger ban of the russian mob in the past at all. They have been allowed to bot freely while everyone who opposed them has been banned. I saw videos of their ENTIRE CLAN botting on Hellbound, like 4-5 parties there nonstop for half a year. And nothing, absolutely NOTHING has been done.
So what's going to become of Luna now? A dead wasteland. With last remains of opposition against 85/78/78/78 fullboss 120/120/120/120/120/300 elemented bas*ards destroyed, Luna is going to die. The clan WAR will disassemble and most of the former WARs will eventually be recruited into the russian mob. Yay for Luna. That means ABSOLUTELY no PvP whatsoever, no competition in Worldboss fights, no competition in 7signs, no PvP in Castle sieges which will become TOTALLY ignored, no nothing. Hell, the idiot heroes are crying for PvP in herochat already.
The population of Luna is the lowest of all servers. If this continues and something radical won't be done, I'm afraid that the population will drop even more, starting with the last remains of legit players :(
Well lumilla our server is doomed since long time, i only wait ncsoft dissolve our server to go where i want, but is too late to save luna, ncsoft are only sadist and crual to keep luna alive, they must unplug luna like a patient in terminal phase, and wathever after this ban luna population have been decreased of nearly 100, so we are only 500 now :D
I think for Luna, the opposition is actually doing the russians bidding, by botting so blatantly?
They arent getting banned for being saints Lumilla, its probably more for being AFK in Saints lol.
You're right I agree. But letting russians bot for a year and a half, while everyone else gets banned? Thats just sick and makes me wanna puke.
My point is, that a year and a half they have been doing NOTHING to ban the bots, and now when they are 85/78/78/78 fullboss full elemented and don't NEED to bot anymore, NOW the precious GM team starts to investigate bots. This is just plain stupid, imbecilic and ******ed.
You're right I agree. But letting russians bot for a year and a half, while everyone else gets banned? Thats just sick and makes me wanna puke.
My point is, that a year and a half they have been doing NOTHING to ban the bots, and now when they are 85/78/78/78 fullboss full elemented and don't NEED to bot anymore, NOW the precious GM team starts to investigate bots. This is just plain stupid, imbecilic and ******ed.
Botting is botting. And ppl thankfully get banned for it.
Now if Russians have a way to not get detected/found/reported, thats a different matter. But as long as the ppl getting banned actually botted, I see no wrong doing from NCsofts side in Lunas situation.
Is this the server where Silent was banned and then unbanned? You can thank your own community for that one I think.
You're right I agree. But letting russians bot for a year and a half, while everyone else gets banned? Thats just sick and makes me wanna puke.
My point is, that a year and a half they have been doing NOTHING to ban the bots, and now when they are 85/78/78/78 fullboss full elemented and don't NEED to bot anymore, NOW the precious GM team starts to investigate bots. This is just plain stupid, imbecilic and ******ed.
Funny.... you make video's of bot's (incl W ally) in the forums and now you complain about GM's taking out the life of Luna server?
The irony is, taking out all bot's in Luna will leave us in a dead empty server. This affects all, not just those who take bans for 3rd party programs, but every player in Luna server.
Usualy Vikobe speaks bunch of crap but for this he might be right, a couple more ban rounds in Luna and you better pull the plug on he server b/c there will be notthing left.
Botting is botting. And ppl thankfully get banned for it.
Now if Russians have a way to not get detected/found/reported, thats a different matter. But as long as the ppl getting banned actually botted, I see no wrong doing from NCsofts side in Lunas situation.
Is this the server where Silent was banned and then unbanned? You can thank your own community for that one I think.
You'd have to level your toon from scratch from the start of Luna to understand. Idiots who have not been banned while botting for almost 2 years straight are now perma heroes, mock us for being legit in herochat - that's what angers me. They even boasted with using walker in herochat, can you believe the ignorance and snobbery? And did GMs give a **** then? No, not at all. They have been knowingly overlooking the whole bot problem since the VERY start of Luna.
And for the love of God, don't connect me with "them" in any way. "They" are not a part of "my" community. I have absolutely nothing in common with "them" and never would even think about wanting to.
You gotta understand that by banning barely anyone since the start of the server almost 2 years ago and NOW beginning to ban is doing no good. Understand that it's too LATE to do anything about the bot situation anymore. The only thing they do by banning NOW is creating another massive drop in population of the server.
Yes you heard me right, at this point when the server is dying, this ban action has been a kick in the stomach for Luna. I am actually defending the bots from WAR clan. I don't expect you to ever understand as you have absolutely no idea how desperate things are on Luna.
Funny.... you make video's of bot's (incl W ally) in the forums and now you complain about GM's taking out the life of Luna server?
No I'm trying to find at least some fun in the crap server I'm playing on. And once AGAIN, I'm not complaining about GMs doing their stuff. I'm complaining about GMs doing their stuff 1.5 years too late.
Imagine you as a fireman. You came late to the house that is already burned and reduced to dust and start spraying it with water. Does it have any effect? No it doesn't. That's what the GMs are doing now. Beating a dead horse.
You'd have to level your toon from scratch from the start of Luna to understand. Idiots who have not been banned while botting for almost 2 years straight are now perma heroes, mock us for being legit in herochat - that's what angers me. They even boasted with using walker in herochat, can you believe the ignorance and snobbery? And did GMs give a **** then? No, not at all. They have been knowingly overlooking the whole bot problem since the VERY start of Luna.
And for the love of God, don't connect me with "them" in any way. "They" are not a part of "my" community. I have absolutely nothing in common with "them" and never would even think about wanting to.
You gotta understand that by banning barely anyone since the start of the server almost 2 years ago and NOW beginning to ban is doing no good. Understand that it's too LATE to do anything about the bot situation anymore. The only thing they do by banning NOW is creating another massive drop in population of the server.
Yes you heard me right, at this point when the server is dying, this ban action has been a kick in the stomach for Luna. I am actually defending the bots from WAR clan. I don't expect you to ever understand as you have absolutely no idea how desperate things are on Luna.
No I'm trying to find at least some fun in the crap server I'm playing on. And once AGAIN, I'm not complaining about GMs doing their stuff. I'm complaining about GMs doing their stuff 1.5 years too late.
I'm guessing it was just as bad as Franz back in the day. Me and a friend rerolled there, but gave it up around lvl 40ish, since it was just full of bots, as in full 9 man parties in starter areas even.
If you dont like your server, just transfer, leave the bots to fight the bots...
Ban 3rd action program is great;i just doubt how far and how long will go this action.
For speaking about servers,if luna is as dead and 1 sided,we definitely have the same on franz,Greenfire become the only side.I hope the 3 servers euros will merge soon,or my end onl2 is near.
Another point i would add,it will be very nice , when u ban a clan leader ,that the clan hall get in auction right away.Because the situation is this : half of the clan hall are still controlled by dead headless clan , when the half of the rest,is controlled by alt clan.
This is a friendly reminder that the use of third-party programs is unacceptable in Lineage II. Some of you may have heard of situations where seemingly half a clan has been removed from the game. Please remember that if you share a clan with someone that uses third-party programs (aka 'botting'), it's possible that your whole clan will be examined, including yourself. We are doing our best to clean out these sinners and give honest players the advantage.
again the same old song...did you came up with this idea now??
what were you doing on C3-C4...there is a bunch of 85 100% guyz out there...
why i should be examined when my 148th clan-mate caught botting??
if some schoolmate of mine uses drugs...police will come to search my home too??
so do your job and dont say to the players just be afraid...we will be searching you...
to all the rest who still say..."power to banhammer", "kill all botters" etc...ALL SERVERS ARE EMPTY!!!!
to all the rest who still say..."power to banhammer", "kill all botters" etc...ALL SERVERS ARE EMPTY!!!!
So what? Empty servers can be opened for transfers or merged. The game community is spread thin as it is. I preffer an empty server from a botted server.
As for the argument: "Where were you all this time when everyone botted to top levels?".
I agree that NC (for their own reasons) left this plague hit their game and did nothing. But I can't agree with the reasoning: "Since they didn't do anything about it in the past, they should not do anything now". The key point is not to stop the effort. I have seen many anti-bot campaigns that lasted 2-4 weeks and then all was forgoten.
You ported my m8ts that was exping with me in Varka.
at first PP (man, he thought that server lagggzzz as allways), after that you ported PP and SE togather (rly they berely healed me after some time left as soon as they realized that they R far away from me). . ..You imagine that ? I got 7 mobs on me and at that time my PP and SE shout right in my ear in Vent: WTF with this freeShard?
and finaly You deloged PP :rolleyes:
whole night I read in clan chat about ports and delogs. specialy it was "funny" to hear from pty that tried to survive on green spot under mobs, without deloged m8ts that play support ;)
I thought that Vent will fall down from what I was hearing from my clanm8ts
good job mista GM
so all your play with me and my clan on spots without showing yourself ended with BANN of the only clan that tried to make that dead Luna 2side server.
np
now you got your dead 1side Luna (600+ on-line including traders????) as a reward in your HolyW.A.R. against Windmills.
P.S. tickets on the way :D
Wow they did same thing to us last night in HB, was awesome.. awesome way to kill people in game, we thought it's another great bug.
What a stupid idea to test botting people, you can pm any of us for better ways to detect botters then banning some people that dual box .. well, I guess, just your founds going to the toilet.
We didn't had any afk-ers.. so I guess we were lucky :)
Beware people NC could ban you for being afk in a party.. so no more afk bio, afk smoke..get a can!
My constant party also hunts often at front/middle spot on HB for tomes, and I guess it is fun for people who run past there looking for pvp to click on some of us and hit the report button, just because they can. Our party has been "examined" a few times (at least that's what I would guess it was), people suddenly lost CP with nobody around and one time we had several people dc at the same time, repeatedly (no lag+"you have been disconnected" or game crash, just poof you have been disconnected). Yes, if THIS is how they try to find botters, it is a crappy way of doing it, so much fun when suddenly half the DD in the party plus the healer are gone.
Just to clarify again, Sace's post does not mean if you are in a clan or party with a botter, you will be banned. She is trying to let people know that associating with botters will likely bring the GM's to examine your account. If you are playing by the rules, you have no worries. :)
-Moxie
I completely disagree with this .... Here is an email received from a friend of mine that had his account banned while he was sitting on a hill .... not botting .. not doing anything illegal other than someone in his party was.
So I really think that this needs to be answered and told us exactly what is true.
Because obviously there seems to be some variance in the answers.
Botting is botting. And ppl thankfully get banned for it.
Now if Russians have a way to not get detected/found/reported, thats a different matter. But as long as the ppl getting banned actually botted, I see no wrong doing from NCsofts side in Lunas situation.
The point is, and I guess it is the same on many of the servers, that the dominating clans HAVE botted their way to the top, and now when they are 84/85, they have no NEED anymore to bot. They can just go out and pvp all the time, because they do not need to lvl up anymore. So the only ones who will be caught by the GM looking for bots are the ones who try to catch up.
So what you have right now, after bannings, is a dominating group of people who are 84/85 ruling over everything, getting all the epics, winning every pvp and then a bunch of legits who have no chance of ever winning any pvp against them. And everybody in the middle gets banned, because the only way for them to close the gap to the top dogs in a reasonable amount of time would be to bot.
Those at the top who cheated need to be banned, too, but RIGHT NOW they do not bot anymore, so they won't get caught.
There is no way of fixing this. Keeping them under constant supervision for any signs of using other cheating stuff like auto cp pot spam etc. might help maybe, don't know. Or maybe they will get bored eventually and quit.
Simple fact is, the GM have been sleeping for too long, botting was totally safe, too many have done it and got away with it. It is simply disgusting to see people who were blatantly botting at silenos, in pagans etc. two years ago STILL in game, even though they have been reported via report button and /gm literally hundreds if not thousands of times when they were doing on their main and on each of their subclasses.
Only fear I have is that eventually those servers will have so low population that they will be merged with another server in the same situation. Then we would have a new server with twice the amount of untouchable idiots at the top, but for the rest of the server it would be a catastrophe.
I completely disagree with this .... Here is an email received from a friend of mine that had his account banned while he was sitting on a hill .... not botting .. not doing anything illegal other than someone in his party was.
So I really think that this needs to be answered and told us exactly what is true.
Because obviously there seems to be some variance in the answers.
I do not see what the problem is, that guy was leeching in a bot party. Clear case of deserving a ban. What Sace meant that you will not be banned if you yourself stay legit, even though your clannies aren't. Leeching in a bot party is NOT staying legit.
I do not see what the problem is, that guy was leeching in a bot party. Clear case of deserving a ban. What Sace meant that you will not be banned if you yourself stay legit, even though your clannies aren't. Leeching in a bot party is NOT staying legit.
the case can be made however that being in a bot clan also means you arent legit.
its a parallel argument. if youre partied with bots, youre not legit, despite not using walker. if youre in a clan of bots youre not legit despite never having botted.
the line in the sand is muddy at best, and needs to change.
I do not see what the problem is, that guy was leeching in a bot party. Clear case of deserving a ban. What Sace meant that you will not be banned if you yourself stay legit, even though your clannies aren't. Leeching in a bot party is NOT staying legit.
The problem is .... Moxie just stated that the people would be examined on an individual basis ... This account was examined and showed that it WAS NOT BOTTING.... hence her saying that being in a party with a bot will not be a reason to be banned for isnt true.
This toon attacked mobs and everything as well ... not just sitting .. but at the time he was dc'd/banned he was sitting on a hill. So basically its all contradictory and there needs to be a definitive line made.
Well, there are various ways of being in a party with a botter. There's the party with live people plus a buffer, and the buffer is on walker or whatever and you yourself don't even realize it (and think the owner is just buffing via a macro). And then there is the "8 man party botting, one guy leeching" version.
It has been officially stated ages ago (I think by Spam) that benefitting from bots (in the sense of leeching in a bot party) is something that can get you banned (was in some discussion about a guy sitting afk in a cata leeching).
I think they should clarify it that knowingly benefitting from bots in a party can get you banned, and the "knowingly" just has to be something the GM gets to decide, because the player always can say "oh, I did not know that he is botting". So the botted buffer version should maybe get you a warning (so that you DO know next time you party that guy), while sitting afk while 8 bots bring in the xp is a pretty obvious example of "you should have realized that they are botting".
But let's wait what the officials here have to say.
IMO take a hard look at the top 5 clans in all servers, and we will know soon enough if you are serious. Really hopes you are. But the ban hammer is chocked by spiderwebs right now.
This is a friendly reminder that the use of third-party programs is unacceptable in Lineage II. Some of you may have heard of situations where seemingly half a clan has been removed from the game. Please remember that if you share a clan with someone that uses third-party programs (aka 'botting'), it's possible that your whole clan will be examined, including yourself. We are doing our best to clean out these sinners and give honest players the advantage.
I am Just curious of 1 thing and since i do not read korean it makes it a little rough on me. Is it true nc soft promotes botting on korean servers and lets people rebuy back to open there accounts once closed. i am just wondering if this is more of the same bs nc soft has been shoveling to beat down on the non korean to try and get more money from us by banning accounts? and for the new hired gms at nc like someone already posted it is to late to ban the real offenders there are clans ruling servers that do not need to bot anymore and just beat people down because they already hit 85/ 80/80/80 using programs and now ncsoft wants to stop the "sinners" please; why do you just not call it for what it really is. Aion is out please go play it or we will force you out of lineage 2 so either way you have to buy a new account or try aion. I have played Aoin it is a boring game. I have been playing lineage2 and 1 since the release of beta lineage 1 i know alot about this game and have dealt with the ignorance of nc soft for a long time and tbh the only reason i am still in lineage 2 is the small hope that lineage 3 will be worth something and to hang with friends.
So i say to nc soft about the bannings; to late the game is already screwed as balance is concerned. spend more money advertising and bring in new people to play.spend less worrying about less on game play and get lineage 3 on the markets.
LOL my suggestion, is that the gear for the botted toon's should be auction in giran, buy a Live GM and tell people where it came from etc. dont let the same guy buy it from a different account.
when you ban the toon that has been botted you remove things from the game that are hard to get, boss jewels etc, IE baium spawns once every 5 days so only 73 times each year and of cause it's chance to drop. so will happen less than this. the botters normally are high lvl etc and from stronger clan in alot of cases, and have these items so they are gone off the server never to be around again.
this might not be a perfect solution to it, maybe even just send them to the opposition clans on there server.
But better that they where not gone for ever imo. Also make it retrospective.....
The problem is .... Moxie just stated that the people would be examined on an individual basis ... This account was examined and showed that it WAS NOT BOTTING.... hence her saying that being in a party with a bot will not be a reason to be banned for isnt true.
This toon attacked mobs and everything as well ... not just sitting .. but at the time he was dc'd/banned he was sitting on a hill. So basically its all contradictory and there needs to be a definitive line made.
Funny.... you make video's of bot's (incl W ally) in the forums and now you complain about GM's taking out the life of Luna server?
The irony is, taking out all bot's in Luna will leave us in a dead empty server. This affects all, not just those who take bans for 3rd party programs, but every player in Luna server.
Usualy Vikobe speaks bunch of crap but for this he might be right, a couple more ban rounds in Luna and you better pull the plug on he server b/c there will be notthing left.
GG NC, only 2 years to late for Luna.
Enjoy viena your soviet clan can be happy while than ncsoft protect your clannie they kill your enemies for you, so now you have less enemies in luna, next time try to ban all the not einheit you will have your perfect private soviet server with an official server, you can ressurect soviet union in luna if you wish :)
I would like to ask one question to the NC west team. We all know (or most of us do) that leaching xp from a bot group is a big no no and could get you banned along with the bot group.
But what if I am down in the cats seeding the mobs the bots are killing? I am not in there party so I am not getting xp, but it could look like I am "Benefiting" from the bots. Or you could just see it as a way to prevent to bots from getting item drops.
Could Sace or Moxie ask one of the Head GM's so I can make sure I don't over step the game rules.
I would like to ask one question to the NC west team. We all know (or most of us do) that leaching xp from a bot group is a big no no and could get you banned along with the bot group.
But what if I am down in the cats seeding the mobs the bots are killing? I am not in there party so I am not getting xp, but it could look like I am "Benefiting" from the bots. Or you could just see it as a way to prevent to bots from getting item drops.
Could Sace or Moxie ask one of the Head GM's so I can make sure I don't over step the game rules.
I would like to ask one question to the NC west team. We all know (or most of us do) that leaching xp from a bot group is a big no no and could get you banned along with the bot group.
But what if I am down in the cats seeding the mobs the bots are killing? I am not in there party so I am not getting xp, but it could look like I am "Benefiting" from the bots. Or you could just see it as a way to prevent to bots from getting item drops.
Could Sace or Moxie ask one of the Head GM's so I can make sure I don't over step the game rules.
This has been answered before by Spam - he said that you are allowed to seed other people mobs and it is up to them (the party that is killing the mobs) to tell you to stop.
This has been answered before by Spam - he said that you are allowed to seed other people mobs and it is up to them (the party that is killing the mobs) to tell you to stop.
Still want an answer from the new head GM's (Spam has been gone for some time now).
you know... i remember this being debated a while back about gm's/cm's whatever playin the game and people finnally getting banned but going against some code about something the gms couldn't do.
all i wanna say anyhow is i hope that you look at everyone equally and that if listening to players take in account that people assume, target, lie, and have personal agendas. some people dont like other people and will spew venom at thier enemies and its a matter of who you meet that gives you impressions of other people.
that said in every clan on my server i find someone botting or in the corner of a bot infested room and suddenly bing that player lvls. but that can be the nice player everyone likes and it can be the person everyone feels is the scum of the server.
gl with your spanish inquisition and if i should end up on this said examination please use gloves and dont turn the temp of the room to 40degrees or put me in a dark room with only one light upon my lone soul.
I would like to ask one question to the NC west team. We all know (or most of us do) that leaching xp from a bot group is a big no no and could get you banned along with the bot group.
But what if I am down in the cats seeding the mobs the bots are killing? I am not in there party so I am not getting xp, but it could look like I am "Benefiting" from the bots. Or you could just see it as a way to prevent to bots from getting item drops.
Could Sace or Moxie ask one of the Head GM's so I can make sure I don't over step the game rules.
BAAAAAAANNNNNNNEDD
You ARE benfiting ( yea misspelled i dont care) !
This is all BS anyways, ban a ton, do merger, after merger back to where it is now.
GF L2 players
BTW that teleporting ppl in the party all over the place ?? wtf is that crap? kill a party off jsut to see if they are botting? So if you dont "FIND" anything in this so called investigation tool and ppl die, you give back the xp? Didnt think so.
In this bad economy with ppl that have degrees in computers, they get H.S drop outs to run the show.............
Last edited by Sace; Yesterday at 07:25 PM. Reason: private communication removed ....
Okay so the information I posted was removed.... however there are still no answers.
Im not trying to be difficult here ... but I really think we deserve some kind of answer on it. There are alot of us that have put a lot of time into this game and dont wanna be banned for something stupid ... ie someone else in party using program and not being aware of it ...
This is a friendly reminder that the use of third-party programs is unacceptable in Lineage II. Some of you may have heard of situations where seemingly half a clan has been removed from the game. Please remember that if you share a clan with someone that uses third-party programs (aka 'botting'), it's possible that your whole clan will be examined, including yourself. We are doing our best to clean out these sinners and give honest players the advantage.
Long time ago, i sent tonz of Ss, QQ petitions, bot report, lots of documents to ban some professional botters that were all the time pking our clan. Wht happened till today? Nothing. So, from this post i can conclude 2 things: NCSOFT didnt carea bout the bots all these years and want start now the BAN REVOLUTION or u guys just incompetents and dont know how work on it. As someone said, u want banhammer now after the TOP clans already got 84/85 and dont need afk exp? Too late
This is a friendly reminder that the use of third-party programs is unacceptable in Lineage II. Some of you may have heard of situations where seemingly half a clan has been removed from the game. Please remember that if you share a clan with someone that uses third-party programs (aka 'botting'), it's possible that your whole clan will be examined, including yourself. We are doing our best to clean out these sinners and give honest players the advantage.
I don't understand why this was complicated.
Complaining that it's too late too start banning bots while continuing to play seems a bit contradictory. Bots get in the way, but seriously, "live" players with multiple accounts get on my nerves more than bots. People who complain about not having a buffer and then turn down Overlords because their buffs aren't good enough get on my nerves more than bots. People that complain about their clan not doing anything but never make suggestions for clan activities get on my nerves more than bots do. People who complain about not getting parties but never try to start them get on my nerves more than bots do. People who only desire to be power leveled get on my nerves more than bots do. People who want someone to craft stuff for them without putting any tangible help into that get on my nerves more than bots do. At least botters take the initiative and do something. Bots get in the way, they are annoying, they need to be banned, but frankly so do some "legits."
At least on my part a live player will always get a spot before a boxed buffer, even if lower level. But some people are a bit elitist about that...can't give CoV, no party, those get on my nerve too
what bothers me is grey area's and who get the cut and who doest. this person was in party with a bot but didn't know. BAN! that to me is something i will never like. and who's benefiting like someone who seeds a bots mob. saving them shots and farming the bots mob. again if they had done their job correctly the first time this would not be an issue. instead this innovative player made it work for them.
im sure they had reported the bots... im sure they pk'd the bots... but they just kept coming back. so he made the bots work for him. was this any fault of his own? no but he is benefiting. so bam... ban...
im sure at some point im sure i have partied with a person who bots. but i dont care anymore. what i do care about is that good people who have learned to deal with botting in this game will be banned. if NCsoft was the company it should have been everyone here would not be so jaded. i have been in a handful of clans including Serialkillerz,Ancientheroes,heronguard,ebonhand,de adlysinners,DG, and memeber of Darklegionx and am now leader of clan Darklegionx. theres more there im sure.
in that time i have found people botting in every clan. in clans i was officer of i personally booted people. i have pk'd bots since i started this game. i have caught senior members of a clan botting. I have REPORTED them. you know where its gotten me? no where
now im in a clan that im sure has at least ONE person who bots but will anything be done? probably not. but should i be banned cause im with them... what if most of them bot.. should i be banned? its my feeling that ncsoft has not been the best when it comes to which rules one follows or sticking to one policy and not another its more like what mood is the person in...
this could easily be a witch hunt and that does bother me. and im sure i have been looked at. but im sure ill be banned by nyx for my sense of humor before association with anyone who bots while being directly or indirectly or inadvertently associated with people who do bot.
so while i hear "the innocent will be sparred" i really feel bad cause i have no good faith in that fairness will ensue.
to me i see this as a witch hunt that has huge potential to go bad. im sorry moxie, sace, nyx, and any other gms out there. its just how i feel.
I do like the ban hammer im just worried THIS time the innocent will have casualties n to us the game has meaning. to bots... they just buy another account.
what bothers me is grey area's and who get the cut and who doest. this person was in party with a bot but didn't know. BAN! that to me is something i will never like. and who's benefiting like someone who seeds a bots mob. saving them shots and farming the bots mob. again if they had done their job correctly the first time this would not be an issue. instead this innovative player made it work for them.
im sure they had reported the bots... im sure they pk'd the bots... but they just kept coming back. so he made the bots work for him. was this any fault of his own? no but he is benefiting. so bam... ban...
im sure at some point im sure i have partied with a person who bots. but i dont care anymore. what i do care about is that good people who have learned to deal with botting in this game will be banned. if NCsoft was the company it should have been everyone here would not be so jaded. i have been in a handful of clans including Serialkillerz,Ancientheroes,heronguard,ebonhand,de adlysinners,DG, and memeber of Darklegionx and am now leader of clan Darklegionx. theres more there im sure.
in that time i have found people botting in every clan. in clans i was officer of i personally booted people. i have pk'd bots since i started this game. i have caught senior members of a clan botting. I have REPORTED them. you know where its gotten me? no where
now im in a clan that im sure has at least ONE person who bots but will anything be done? probably not. but should i be banned cause im with them... what if most of them bot.. should i be banned? its my feeling that ncsoft has not been the best when it comes to which rules one follows or sticking to one policy and not another its more like what mood is the person in...
this could easily be a witch hunt and that does bother me. and im sure i have been looked at. but im sure ill be banned by nyx for my sense of humor before association with anyone who bots while being directly or indirectly or inadvertently associated with people who do bot.
so while i hear "the innocent will be sparred" i really feel bad cause i have no good faith in that fairness will ensue.
to me i see this as a witch hunt that has huge potential to go bad. im sorry moxie, sace, nyx, and any other gms out there. its just how i feel.
I do like the ban hammer im just worried THIS time the innocent will have casualties n to us the game has meaning. to bots... they just buy another account.
i miss =HGMSPAM=
Guilty by association only makes sense at NCSoft apparently. At what point has this ever been the case "the innocent will be sparred". This has never been the case and never will be at NCSoft.
This is a friendly reminder that the use of third-party programs is unacceptable in Lineage II. Some of you may have heard of situations where seemingly half a clan has been removed from the game. Please remember that if you share a clan with someone that uses third-party programs (aka 'botting'), it's possible that your whole clan will be examined, including yourself. We are doing our best to clean out these sinners and give honest players the advantage.
It just appears in my opinion that Sace is simply the messenger of her superiors incompetence. So give her break. Just in my honest opinion.
I don't understand what the fuss is about. Sace made it perfectly clear that they're only punishing the 3rd party program users.
If you're not one of them, then you have nothing to worry about. She's only keeping us updated. Yet, it seems as though some of us don't even appreciate that.
I don't understand what the fuss is about. Sace made it perfectly clear that they're only punishing the 3rd party program users.
If you're not one of them, then you have nothing to worry about. She's only keeping us updated. Yet, it seems as though some of us don't even appreciate that.
I don't understand what the fuss is about. Sace made it perfectly clear that they're only punishing the 3rd party program users.
If you're not one of them, then you have nothing to worry about. She's only keeping us updated. Yet, it seems as though some of us don't even appreciate that.
sace is all talk so far.
as is moxie.
i have yet to see any noticeable impact on the game as a direct cause of the banhammer.
There’s been some speculation about what will happen in various scenarios. The truth is, each situation is investigated on a case by case basis.
This actual post was only a reminder to those of you in a clan with many members who regularly use third party programs. In situations where a good number of a clan is botting, we will likely be investigating the other members of the clan as well. If you are in a clan that matches the description above, you increase your odds of being investigated. This doesn't mean an automatic account closure for everyone in the clan.
In regards to participating in a group of botters or leeching off of a bot group, the account will not be immediately closed just for being in the same party. However, we do reserve the right to investigate a player who is participating or leeching directly from a bot group to determine their culpability. We may take action if they are found to have a significant history of this type of activity. There are no defined numbers in these situations. Again, these are case by case situations.
The thing to take away from this topic is to play safe. Use common sense. Help us improve your gameplay. Allow us, the entire Lineage II team, to help you in other ways that are more meaningful to you. Don't use third party programs and don't sit around all day benefiting from those who do. It’s not worth it. I understand the historical argument of inaction, but those that do not learn from history are destined to repeat it.
There’s been some speculation about what will happen in various scenarios. The truth is, each situation is investigated on a case by case basis.
This actual post was only a reminder to those of you in a clan with many members who regularly use third party programs. In situations where a good number of a clan is botting, we will likely be investigating the other members of the clan as well. If you are in a clan that matches the description above, you increase your odds of being investigated. This doesn't mean an automatic account closure for everyone in the clan.
In regards to participating in a group of botters or leeching off of a bot group, the account will not be immediately closed just for being in the same party. However, we do reserve the right to investigate a player who is participating or leeching directly from a bot group to determine their culpability. We may take action if they are found to have a significant history of this type of activity. There are no defined numbers in these situations. Again, these are case by case situations.
The thing to take away from this topic is to play safe. Use common sense. Help us improve your gameplay. Allow us, the entire Lineage II team, to help you in other ways that are more meaningful to you. Don't use third party programs and don't sit around all day benefiting from those who do. It’s not worth it. I understand the historical argument of inaction, but those that do not learn from history are destined to repeat it.
You are making assumptions based on association not fact.
There’s been some speculation about what will happen in various scenarios. The truth is, each situation is investigated on a case by case basis.
This actual post was only a reminder to those of you in a clan with many members who regularly use third party programs. In situations where a good number of a clan is botting, we will likely be investigating the other members of the clan as well. If you are in a clan that matches the description above, you increase your odds of being investigated. This doesn't mean an automatic account closure for everyone in the clan.
In regards to participating in a group of botters or leeching off of a bot group, the account will not be immediately closed just for being in the same party. However, we do reserve the right to investigate a player who is participating or leeching directly from a bot group to determine their culpability. We may take action if they are found to have a significant history of this type of activity. There are no defined numbers in these situations. Again, these are case by case situations.
The thing to take away from this topic is to play safe. Use common sense. Help us improve your gameplay. Allow us, the entire Lineage II team, to help you in other ways that are more meaningful to you. Don't use third party programs and don't sit around all day benefiting from those who do. It’s not worth it. I understand the historical argument of inaction, but those that do not learn from history are destined to repeat it.
Welcome to the forums - and don't let us whiny kids get to you, if you do your job then all will be ok.
Every one i see with more then 2 ppl im gonna bot report button, if i run outta points im gonna just start gm spam .. then ill log on a diffrent toon and do them same.. etc etc etc.
Bot or not lets see who gets banned for no reason .. speculation.. or w/e.
This actual post was only a reminder to those of you in a clan with many members who regularly use third party programs.
In regards to participating in a group of botters or leeching off of a bot group, the account will not be immediately closed just for being in the same party.
Nice. Thanks for clarifying that. Hopefully people will understand now.
There’s been some speculation about what will happen in various scenarios. The truth is, each situation is investigated on a case by case basis.
This actual post was only a reminder to those of you in a clan with many members who regularly use third party programs. In situations where a good number of a clan is botting, we will likely be investigating the other members of the clan as well. If you are in a clan that matches the description above, you increase your odds of being investigated. This doesn't mean an automatic account closure for everyone in the clan.
In regards to participating in a group of botters or leeching off of a bot group, the account will not be immediately closed just for being in the same party. However, we do reserve the right to investigate a player who is participating or leeching directly from a bot group to determine their culpability. We may take action if they are found to have a significant history of this type of activity. There are no defined numbers in these situations. Again, these are case by case situations.
The thing to take away from this topic is to play safe. Use common sense. Help us improve your gameplay. Allow us, the entire Lineage II team, to help you in other ways that are more meaningful to you. Don't use third party programs and don't sit around all day benefiting from those who do. It’s not worth it. I understand the historical argument of inaction, but those that do not learn from history are destined to repeat it.
Well Said. +1 to you. I do not see how people can misread this, but from reading a few posts, it seems that some are.
There’s been some speculation about what will happen in various scenarios. The truth is, each situation is investigated on a case by case basis.
This actual post was only a reminder to those of you in a clan with many members who regularly use third party programs. In situations where a good number of a clan is botting, we will likely be investigating the other members of the clan as well. If you are in a clan that matches the description above, you increase your odds of being investigated. This doesn't mean an automatic account closure for everyone in the clan.
In regards to participating in a group of botters or leeching off of a bot group, the account will not be immediately closed just for being in the same party. However, we do reserve the right to investigate a player who is participating or leeching directly from a bot group to determine their culpability. We may take action if they are found to have a significant history of this type of activity. There are no defined numbers in these situations. Again, these are case by case situations.
The thing to take away from this topic is to play safe. Use common sense. Help us improve your gameplay. Allow us, the entire Lineage II team, to help you in other ways that are more meaningful to you. Don't use third party programs and don't sit around all day benefiting from those who do. It’s not worth it. I understand the historical argument of inaction, but those that do not learn from history are destined to repeat it.
Ty for the clean answer, I quoted you on my clan board and it's very clear for French who are trying to speak english :D
Oh yes, Welcome here will, glad to see you posting :)
then HGMwill TBH we don't want to know
all you are effectively doing in this thread is giving botters a heads up that when they see one of their fellow clan mate botters get banned they need to lay off for a while
Do not throw on a way floor everything, after last wave bans on Luna remains less than 500 players, whether it is time to think of merge Luna with Franz?
lol just lol, you're so failing at this banning stuff....
You only ban bots when there are to many of them, when boters don't have room or they get to high in level, then you come and ban them and it keeps the game running you get more money, for the new account, the farmers get more rice to feed their kids and everyone's happy
...except us the players who keep paying you for getting f..ed every time we play.
No really is it that hard to make a protection that can detect the 3rd party programs? All private server have them and not NCSoft it's a difference between not being able and not wanting and that difference is $$$$.
but again it depends on everyone, if I'm stupid enough to keep playing the game then I deserve the waste of time needed for reading and posing on threads like this one.
anyway thank you for wasting my time with this post and have a good life.
Do not throw on a way floor everything, after last wave bans on Luna remains less than 500 players, whether it is time to think of merge Luna with Franz?
+1
Do not throw on a way floor everything, after last wave bans on Luna remains less than 500 players, whether it is time to think of merge Luna with Franz?
No really is it that hard to make a protection that can detect the 3rd party programs? All private server have them and not NCSoft it's a difference between not being able and not wanting and that difference is $$$$.
maybee private servers owners are smarter then all of NCsoft team, or maybee there is lots of money involved or even both :x
There’s been some speculation about what will happen in various scenarios. The truth is, each situation is investigated on a case by case basis.
This actual post was only a reminder to those of you in a clan with many members who regularly use third party programs. In situations where a good number of a clan is botting, we will likely be investigating the other members of the clan as well. If you are in a clan that matches the description above, you increase your odds of being investigated. This doesn't mean an automatic account closure for everyone in the clan.
In regards to participating in a group of botters or leeching off of a bot group, the account will not be immediately closed just for being in the same party. However, we do reserve the right to investigate a player who is participating or leeching directly from a bot group to determine their culpability. We may take action if they are found to have a significant history of this type of activity. There are no defined numbers in these situations. Again, these are case by case situations.
The thing to take away from this topic is to play safe. Use common sense. Help us improve your gameplay. Allow us, the entire Lineage II team, to help you in other ways that are more meaningful to you. Don't use third party programs and don't sit around all day benefiting from those who do. It’s not worth it. I understand the historical argument of inaction, but those that do not learn from history are destined to repeat it.
I dont know your definition of leeching from a bot group, but i know a few clan leaders who did that and they still in game, not to mention about those who are everything but not live on the game.
I have seen ppl in my party using 3rd part programs, so they leave or i leave or if they go totally afk attacking my target they probably end up dieing too fast, but ofc making any petition of that doesn't work too since those are still around.
Like many ppl here i sended names, screenshots, movies with all details and actions?
None, few random bans (yes even the last Franz clear), for the state of the server, for what those players you have banned add saved in case of getting banned Nc as totally failed, not a lot got banned and their alts are there again!
This post is more like "hey ppl dont play with them", then the ppl "oh sure, but we cant have this, do that..." and dark side wins once more, common use the time to post here and kick 2 or 3 guys, look at the **** heroes, this morning a awesome one was polling for hours in fog AFK all time, one friend was happy taking is drops, then leaved him laying on the ground 1 hour later of reporting him, but whats now, tomorrow he will be there again, and the other day, and the day after tomorrow...
I dont tell with this all of them have botted or run bots, but 80% of them i can guide u a visit personally to where they are, some already dont do it, after all they got max. level, probably xp is near or already 100% why use any sort of program to do anything for them.
But also instruct support guys to not ask for names when someone send a petition of multi players using programs in sieges, raids, etc. and the reply is "please give us the names", or "use the report button on them, even if you only can report one, and all your clan and alliance cant report him too".
Honestly, put someone working for good and merge the servers after the clean, dont post like this, to me sounds more like a request for ppl using 3rd part programs to stop that, i guess their silence answer would be something like:
On Luna server remains only +- 500 players (100-150 Are engaged in trade in)
It is time to think of merge Luna+Franz=Franlun :eek: or Lunfra :D
Luna die
NC error was creating Luna, now please dont give Franz ppl more nightmares than the ones we already have!
When was announced a new server all were happy, that was a automated server from the start and even worst compared to franz, i would give you the reason of that, but you probably know the answer, so dont make ppl pay for other errors, that would be the stupid thing ever to do.
My only exception would be for a sort of merge in a policy server 24hours/day with live support, not evasive answers and "we do our best..."
I think that this is fair and entirely reasonable, to examine people who clan with botters. After all, 'birds of a feather flock together.'
It is indeed, and i can tell you the ones that i remind right now that were banned on my server, have been in clans that i can tell you probably 5% of them have been "live", and only some got the hue boot on their , i also can tell you with 100% certain that someone got is gf account banned, but he was near and he still in game.
So sorry if my patience with bots as ended in the day they introduced the lol dead penalties, that should have been called bot saviors!
I would be happy to fight against the china farmers, but not have to play in a sort of a zombie server, the only difference is here they dont say Brains, brains, they just say Xp, Xp
And the second thing are those adena sellers, i bet if those IP were checked, specially the Greek and Russian ones near the GK, would match someone from some clan who never was checked (even having a ban long story), so all that ppl need is a alt as clan leader (just in case), a few football tickets, some beers, and a stable connection, maybe they even find some NC dude in the game (the football one)
NC error was creating Luna, now please dont give Franz ppl more nightmares than the ones we already have!
When was announced a new server all were happy, that was a automated server from the start and even worst compared to franz, i would give you the reason of that, but you probably know the answer, so dont make ppl pay for other errors, that would be the stupid thing ever to do.
My only exception would be for a sort of merge in a policy server 24hours/day with live support, not evasive answers and "we do our best..."
+1... Franz doesn't need more bots.
On another note I hope that the NC team will not only check members of clans but also clanless people... I see the same bots in Silent Valley on Franz for almost TWO MONTHS, even though I keep on reporting them each time I can.
Like many others here .... I have personally posted information on botters and nothing is done ... I have a post where my clan has caught one person from a warring clan on auto rez .... not once ... but twice! the person has been petitioned by others not in clan ... has been bot buttoned... heck one time we just sat there and hit him with the cancel stick over and over again just to watch his buffers spazz out..... but Guess what ... He's hero again this month. Still there still going ...
Just seems like the most stupidest botters are the one's that have survived lol and I hate to say it that way ... but how can 213 rez scrolls on one single person within a small amount of time .. while this person continues to be buffed by his buff bots... and run around attempting to kill mobs ... and not the 5 war tags standing over him laughing .. how is this not caught?
I just hope that whatever is going to be done is done fairly ... as I know of others that have been banned for far less than what I have mentioned above.
Once i was doing the clan armor quest on a alt orc raider, it was really impossible to get the king spiders due to a nuker there, after a few pm's without reply i hit the dude, still no reply so i killed him, tested a rez scroll and guess accepted...
Now the nice part, i made a petition telling exaclyt where i was, what was happening, and the answer was the usuall one, i ended up with 100++++ pk's on my toon with a nice answer from support telling to best way to rid of karma wouls be hunting mobs, ofc the bot problem was not important once more, ofc i ended up deleting the toon, but ws funny after like 4 hours the guy pm me telling he would be killing me all the time for revenge, so to be a nice guy i ended up killing him again :)
The second part i did a fraps adventure and made a movie killing players not replying to my hits ;)
Was hell funny getting a party in IT where i made some guy spending over 30 brez scrolls on the buffers, just ended living for a week on rift by the time :)
plz don't merge luna with another server, it can be fun to play in russian private server and wathever at least we have more place to xp, even if all items price drop because nobody buy it, so at least i can walk without see bot in high xp place and catacomb have free room near entrence for aa
if we cant be popular server at least we can be weird server and be more private friends, because we are so less :)
Bots have to be banned. Anyone who says that it's too late makes a mistake, but pops up a nice point: you cannot ban all bots in a row, otherwise servers would be dead. Fact is: you have to pay more ppl to ban more botters, but banning botters means earning less money. Also servers economy would crash with a total ban. What we need, and we need it, is a gradual and constant ban, starting from higher bots. I mean, I care more of a bot hero than a lvl 40 cata farmer. Also, banning high lvls is much more visible than banning some deep-in-cata farmer that creates another account the day after and is back in 2-3 days.
About clan checkings, **** guys, don't be kids! It's definitely the best thing to check clan mates of botters (I said check, only bots have to be banned), but this sounded like a 'hey you thief: don't try to break in tomorrow between 14 and 20 cause we will be patrolling'.
Do what you have to catch botters and NEVER TELL US HOW YOU DO SO, cause this way you let botters know how to escape from the banhammer.
Also, you could create an NPC in town with the list of the week-banned bots, to show legits that smt is being done and to show botters that they're gonna be catched. It's useless to advertise the game now that we have so many botters, same for merge, but if you get rid regularly of a nice number of bots, then new players will see a nice game and will stay, old players won't leave and we will have a l2 as in the first chronicles: ONLY LEGITS
Sorry if I wrote so much :P
One more thing: you could think about a rule for dead clans. We are full of dead clans, some of which owns a clan hall. It would be nice to disband clans with NO active players, expecially after a banhammer
I can say though that I did post on here a hero that was doing something against the EULA because the said player was removed about a week later and the my post promptly deleted.
maybee private servers owners are smarter then all of NCsoft team, or maybee there is lots of money involved or even both :x
Private servers keep ppl from botting tho so they can't just farm tons of mats to craft alot of items and make them into +1593 vesper cutter's and crap like that. Therefore ppl are too lazy to farm, since all they are looking for in most servers is pvp, they will donate to get items.
Ironically this sounds somewhat like how NcCoin would work. We are the players and 2x xp, additional pets/agathions/accessories etc etc are what we "donate" for. Holy crap it's an idea that just might work!
One more tip: if you wanna beat down adena sellers, you could start selling adena. After all, it would be a way to get 2 pidgeon with one rock: you fight adena illigal sale and you collect some money, to replace the ones from the banned botters.
For whoever is gonna say that adena sale sucks: I **** agree, I hate adena sellers, but if this is gonna help to get rid of bots, I'm in for the compromise.
I taste a bit of irony here
Trust me when I say that even if adena purchase was legal I'd still prefer the old market way to earn it (even cause I'm bloody greed BWAHAHAHA!!!)
Killing pvp would kill this game, instead selling adenas has some nice advantages.
-First: if you are old-style and prefer the market, or if you are kinda greed as me, you won't start buying adenas;
-Second: most farmers would have no reason to exist anymore, which leads to less bots;
-Third: if you used to buy adenas, you just still buy adenas, but your money goes to NCSoft instead to botters;
-Fourth and last: fighting botters has costs, first of all the fact that a banned account does not pay to play anymore. Since money rules everywhere, sadly, this could give NCSoft a reason to really considering the anti-bot campaign as smt that has to be done. As long as botters are an income for 'em, why the Hell should 'em really use the banhammer?
Anyway, please, don't really start selling adenas, I'm too ashamed of even have proposed something so lame. I'd prefer you to ban adena-buyers also: if ppl don't buy adena, noone would bot to farm and sell adena
Umm not they can't simply "do it" because it's in the EULA. They have to prove it which is nothing more than an assumption not fact.
No, they don't have to.
EULA, 4b:...NC Interactive reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to (1) delete or alter any Account ID or (2) terminate any license granted herein, for any reason whatsoever, including, without limitation...
There is another, more specific clause, which they also may (but don't need to) use:
14a: NC Interactive reserves the right to suspend or terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice... upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of Lineage II as described in the Rules of Conduct.
You guys are weird, i probly will take a break soon from this forum once more.
I was tryting this morning making the clan lvl4 quest, after 35 minutes killing the mobs in forest of mirrors, and the usuall reply's from community support about quest itens not dropping at all, i tryed to do with melee only, after a lot of tries finally the item dropped in forest of mirrors, so i moved to the next spot and guess, i lose the quest once more and gain a bunch of karma once more, and nc ask the names again!
Check what the crap is going on or just quit the support from this game, this is a bunch of lies, its all about random bans, honestly i still believe at some point all the server will be automated, this posts...
Its the same crap year after year, honestly i hope at some point theres not 1 legit player on entire Lineage game, maybe that way someone look at the crap they did!
If NCSOFT make the exp easier ppl will not become a "sinner" like the guy posted before. If they make the craft thing easier too would be great. The game like it is now, to play legit and catch the professional botters, its for ppl that dont have a real life. To play L2 and catch the top give up from ur job, school, girlfriend :P
The point is that botting/ cheating is against the rules. Its about the company that actually made it against the rules, policing the game and actually making an example and banning the cheats. I dont mean locking their account for 3 days and then unlocking it after they cry. Thats an insult to every legit player and its falsely boosting your number of banned players to make yourselves look good and like you are actually doing something.
We all know and have reported bots that have gone on to become heroes. You ban them and then unban them and they brag in hero chat and on blah ? Whats the point ? Start with these high profile and well known server cheats and ban them for good. Dont tell us it takes months to prove bla bla bla, when in other games you can report it to an in game GM and they will email you and tell you yes/ no it was botter/adena seller and yes/no he is now banned within 24 hours. Have some guts. Ban them for breaking the rules you made, otherwise change the rules so the rest of us dont have to have endless bot debate threads that result in nothing new and not less but more bots in the 4 years since I started playing.
i applaud any effort they make to ban cheats, but they need to make it count cos i have heard it all before. Get the right people 'cos we all know who they are and if we do, how comes the GM's dont ? Simple answer is they are not doing their job right or they dont care. Least they can do is be honest about the answer .
Haha we have a hero on Sayha now that I keep joking about raising the lvl cap so I can go petition him .. cause he's already maxxed his level out afk for like 3 yrs on Isle of Prayer.... Now what are you gonna do about that? He doesn't have to bot anymore because he's 85 and finished.... how is that fair to anyone?
I was tryting this morning making the clan lvl4 quest, after 35 minutes killing the mobs in forest of mirrors, and the usuall reply's from community support about quest itens not dropping at all, i tryed to do with melee only, after a lot of tries finally the item dropped in forest of mirrors, so i moved to the next spot and guess, i lose the quest once more and gain a bunch of karma once more, and nc ask the names again!
Easy way to stop all the Karma. Stop kililng the bots. Train them instead.
Haha we have a hero on Sayha now that I keep joking about raising the lvl cap so I can go petition him .. cause he's already maxxed his level out afk for like 3 yrs on Isle of Prayer.... Now what are you gonna do about that? He doesn't have to bot anymore because he's 85 and finished.... how is that fair to anyone?
Easy way to stop all the Karma. Stop kililng the bots. Train them instead.
If i add anything to train them i would do it, that's why i ended killing them, anyway i didn't got the quest items for the 4th time, and currently no patience to do the same quest for the 5th time.
Just a big thanks to the support from game, still no answer for killing same mobs for 35 minutes without having a quest item (for level four quest you need to complete within one hour, so after 35 minutes not having one of the 3 items needed is useless to continue), and lame requests as name of the players envolved, check my toon log and whatch who did i pk, or place a support guy in game instead some outsorcing or whatever those are, since they have no knowledge about game typo's.
All we still have is blah blah blah, too mutch conversation and no actions, how can NC Support team explain, how players who have been reported a lot are still in game being now level 85 near 100% xp and all subs at 80???
Or how can NC explain those they seem keep ignoring are botting always in same place at same times, and if there was ever any check on their clan members some clans would be vanished????
This thread is a joke, should be deleted!
-No Clan add sutch investigation on my server
- Petitions are mostly useless for many players (I included a list once of a lot of botted players, with the exact coordenates of the bot places and they still in game!)
- Bot report button is a joke due to is limitations
- Game Support have no access to check in game for 3rd part accounts (if they do i have to say, so they dont care)
- Also if thoase clans have wars problems in the botted xp zones, they just untagg and back on sieges time
So what NC have to say about this????
I guess once more will be:
- We try to do our best to punish those activities, if we can...
I'm happy to see all of this passionate discussion against bots. However a lot of the commentary belongs in the Bot Thread rather than here. This thread should be focusing on, well, knowing thy clan.<o></o>
<o></o>
For instance, what are some ways that trust can be gained and honesty ensured inside a clan?<o></o>
I'm happy to see all of this passionate discussion against bots. However a lot of the commentary belongs in the Bot Thread rather than here. This thread should be focusing on, well, knowing thy clan.<o></o>
<o></o>
For instance, what are some ways that trust can be gained and honesty ensured inside a clan?<o></o>
I don't really see the purpose of this post at all. If you don't bot then you made perfectly clear that they aren't at risk so why would you care if your clan mates do it if those are the people who you have become friends with over the years and choose to play with?
All you really seem to be saying is that if you don't bot you have nothing to worry about, but if you do bot you better make sure no one else in your clan does it or you have a higher risk of getting banned. Or did I miss something?
If you are talking about the annoyance of being bot checked and ported around that will happen anyways if your enemies spam botreport you. People in my clan get checked and even though no one has ever been banned for botting it keeps happening, sometimes even causing people to die.
And in regard to the last question, in the game that l2 has become from all the negligence people don't lie about botting. They do it proudly and their clannies know all about it. So it is not by any means a question of trust and honesty. Botting has by many accounts even become the norm on several servers over time and says nothing about the person, it's just how people choose to play a game.
I'm happy to see all of this passionate discussion against bots. However a lot of the commentary belongs in the Bot Thread rather than here. This thread should be focusing on, well, knowing thy clan.<o></o>
<o></o>
For instance, what are some ways that trust can be gained and honesty ensured inside a clan?<o></o>
RLMAO @ this ... this is L2 not wow there is no honesty
For instance, what are some ways that trust can be gained and honesty ensured inside a clan?<o></o>
Having clear-cut, established rules and enforcing them without prejudice or preference certainly helps. Ensuring that when you recruit, you inform them of the penalties of violation of said rules.
More importantly, having a wealth of contacts that can watch, being open to the community as a whole in terms of observation.
I have always asked that if anyone sees a member of my clan that they suspect is violating the EULA to let me know. I will personally report them and deal with anything.
Beyond coming down like the proverbial fire from heaven, though: it's about recruiting people of a like-mind. Find people who enjoy what you enjoy, who are willing to play the game legitimately, and you will engender trust and loyalty.
(I think it helps, too, that our clan's #1 rule is to play with respect)
I'm happy to see all of this passionate discussion against bots. However a lot of the commentary belongs in the Bot Thread rather than here. This thread should be focusing on, well, knowing thy clan.<o></o>
<o></o>
For instance, what are some ways that trust can be gained and honesty ensured inside a clan?<o></o>
You totally miss it, there is some thread where you said to try the game by yourself, i suggest you to do two different tests, play in US based server time and Euro based server time (Not Luna), both can give you different views of the game.
About Clans, i lead one of the few Legit's clans in Franz server, i really dont care what this ppl say on this boards about violating the eula, and about the impossibility of being legit in L2.
I left Teon with my wife 2 weeks or something before Franz launch, and i builded the clan alone on Franz first seconds, the newbie weapon that was given to the players by the time last for a few hours only at me, to kill the automated dwarfs to get my crafter done with the class quest.
Few random ppl have joined the clan, some seeking just someone to chat with, some just hoping for more constant party then shout for party all the time, slowly the clan grow only one of the players from my old clan add back to the game to play with me, since the start and was a slow start doing alone any player suspicious were hunted for a proof, and many got kicked from my clan since then.
If all the players who have been here for more than 6 months, or maybe one year would stay, it would be impossible to have them all in the clan, during this slowly step we add more than 400 players here, but why they left?
5% - Some have just quit the game, players since OB prefered to leave the game after this last try to see Lineage like the good old days. Sadly many play random private servers!
5% - Others have just stoped playing, no time, real life issues, didn't like the game, etc.
10% - Were kicked for violating the clan rules that match basicly the current eula, mostly for using 3rd part programs, since buying adena is not easy to take proof against it.
20% - Add a few more respect for me and the rest of the team, left the clan before decided to run 3rd part programs, some just argumented having no time to play, other's just wanted to reach high level faster, others claimed to be tired of the grind in game.
35% - Left for higher goals, my current clan as many others in the servers, is unable to do any epic boss, we have no levels to pvp against the top ones, specially when they are based in programs that attack exacly the classes to make us more weak.
Few left cause we couldnt have a solid party in Hellbound when they have hit lvl 78.
Others were tired to feel under the big clans orders, or able to do what they permit us to do with so many limitations, that they ended joining those clans.
From the last % of players i would say not even 75% stayed legit players, some started boting by themselfs, others started running only on the boxed buffer till later get the main toon using it too, others started only by joining 3rd part bot parties to get XP.
So atm we are a happy 40 / 45 players clan, with like 70% being here for years now, and all working hardly to get into level 80 at this state, we dont have top levels (i could be around level 82 , if i didnt took near 6 months break), but we are happy and have a lot of fun as a group of friends.
Ofc from the current amount of ppl, more will leave soon or later for the lack of being able to do the top things in game, many end leaving the game at a later step, others just end up being one more automated toon like one old member who got hero few days ago, who was against that usage, and now he dont play by himsefl anymore, others end up leaving those higher clans due to lack of party, and get that playing by a program that decide your actions is a crap, but they are not allowed to back to my clan, some dont even think about it too, many of those join a lot of clans leave, join, leave till one day just leave the game.
Others just leave cause we can't get a SA crystal for their finally crafted S80 weapon, they cant pay 1.5b like the current price on Franz, so they leave and join the big clans, i consider those even worst, since they are acting as a greedy person, but soon or later those end up starting to use the same automated things.
Many of those higher clans in fact introduce to the players the automated programs, and advise players to use it, thats why few of those who join there have left, also their open forums add statements about how to use correctly those programs, they dont hide from anyone, or say they dont do it or use it even in game chat.
So this post doesn't make any sence at all, being really honest, if some clans who lose players in the last big ban, were verified, i can tell you with 300% sure that those clans would be losing 70% or more of the players, and many of the rest on that clans are their own alts.
Also this last ban have proof that ppl are not being banned by IP adress, at least there was someone who got is GF banned, and he was automated in other party and didnt got any issue.
One of the currently Heroes as been killed currently for the 3rd day, botting in FOG with is boxed buffer, and been reported at leat by 3 players and currently is there, and tomorrow, and so on till that bar gets into 85 and 100% XP
All this reasons, make this thread look useless, and put ppl mad specially the ones who have been reporting from years and still are unable to be part of some higher things, or just want to play as equal with the others, many ppl on this forums say that is players fault, if ppl were not greedy, and not seeking top the bots should not exist, for me they only exist since NC Support badly clean the game, and many times they did any act they choosed ramdom lower level ppl, if they add start from the top clans specially leaders, then heroes, then by top levels, many would be afraid to use those programs, and this boards would be clean of posts about bots like this one have turned once more.
If Sace cant understand why so many threads end like this, i really suggest to spend sometime in both time servers, to try to get into some of the supposed legit clans, then at a later stage step into one of the top clans, in fact that should be something mandatory to anyone in the support team, since many times we add conflicts in the petitions cause the support answering guy have no clue about what we are talking.
Take this post how you want, for me is in the right place, personally i see the bot thread as a place to try to get all the anoying things toguether and keep the rest of the forum clean, but after so many years there is more players mad at this, and CM after CM we cant see anything as just a promisse, even when the random bans happen on the servers.
So my suggestion is to avoid this kind of threads, Sace is CM not Game Support, and i guess many of this issues should not be open to deal with, but your part of the voice we have from anyone at NC side, year after year we get new promisses, new better systems to detect those cheaters, etc.
But for ppl who know something more about code, and how things work, in name of those i have to tell you, they only exist cause NC West permit them to exist.
Till one day i turn my own mind i will be playing here, i dont believe myself running any 3rd part tool as a final stage on my career of being a good player, i would just leave to my old clan who still play in private servers.
Where You are, where You look, what You did - the last 5 years?
Respond to begin first of all yourself - you imagine what would happen if you block all those who ever broke a rule or? Of course you never close your all, you need customers ... But you are to blame for the situation, and not those clans and players.
dont tell me that legit clan cant compete with top dogs... maybe they are first at gear etc. but u can catch they later... its now happen to Bartz - legit ally starts win pvps for Frint etc. but we are still outgeared / outleveled... last year was not easy with all time ganking heroes but transfering / joining botters top clan is for ... sooner or later we show legit force!
Btw. it is not your fault Mindkeeper - someone let them bot, let them sell itemz & adena... botting hero is most ugliest sh it that u can seen in l2 :/ With good bot ban politycs your clan will be top ... and things as unbanned Luna hero bot team makes me sick... but i keep my legit way :) gl to all legits ! dont give up!
I'm happy to see all of this passionate discussion against bots. However a lot of the commentary belongs in the Bot Thread rather than here. This thread should be focusing on, well, knowing thy clan.<o></o>
<o></o>
For instance, what are some ways that trust can be gained and honesty ensured inside a clan?<o></o>
First, it's easy for the clan leader to say when we recruit a toon that we don't accept bot, powerleveling, afk leeching and others practices like that. People know that, so some application are "auto canceled" by the Applicant (Does this word exist ? :P)
Second, it's easy to find a bot in your clan if you care. Of course my clan is not the biggest one, and we don't have more than 30 live different players sometime, but when you see a guy connected, non speaking, non afk at Rune wh / giran / ch / fortress or everywhere, we could be suspicious. We just need to pm him/her, and we will see if he is live or not :=)
Of course what I said can't be apply on top #1 clan with 150+ players
A good way to avoid bot may be to know people irl :P (and irl meeting is a way to drink :D)
dont tell me that legit clan cant compete with top dogs... maybe they are first at gear etc. but u can catch they later... its now happen to Bartz - legit ally starts win pvps for Frint etc. but we are still outgeared / outleveled... last year was not easy with all time ganking heroes but transfering / joining botters top clan is for ... sooner or later we show legit force!
Btw. it is not your fault Mindkeeper - someone let them bot, let them sell itemz & adena... botting hero is most ugliest sh it that u can seen in l2 :/ With good bot ban politycs your clan will be top ... and things as unbanned Luna hero bot team makes me sick... but i keep my legit way :) gl to all legits ! dont give up!
You're pretty dense if you haven't realized vestige and the russians use all kinds of programs. And what you do is pretty much bringing ridiculous numbers against a clan that stopped caring and is barely active anymore and still wipe at frint with 5 parties lol. Every time I've fought you guys and we have a decent pvp setup you get at the most 3 kills no matter what the numbers.
U are PVE Dinix... for u and many other pvp starts only at 85 with valor up... and u can put chain valor + hero uds/ zerks...and u have 83+ OL... stop bragging then about numbers... and if u try talking about "evil" russians kick xBelial first - ( strange that your clan not evil russians got many 85 ppl...u gain exp from pvp ???)
Last time u lose many fair fights too.... but again: for TD 9 vs 9 is still fair even if TD got 9 85 heroes vs 9 S graders.... thats why u like numbers - it sounds more pro and more fair...
And if u stopped caring why u still freaky feed at oly ? Clans as yours aka "merge X random clans for top force" never are long on top... u are not friends - u are just bunch tools for win / farm epic...
Funny also u talking about software ??? Your last CL is banned... u moved to enmity and now roleplaying enmity with TD crest... what a irony
Dont bring here blah things Dinix..... KNOW THY CLAN! AmberEye is always rdy for GMs visits! Your clan is rdy too ??
U are PVE Dinix... for u and many other pvp starts only at 85 with valor up... and u can put chain valor + hero uds/ zerks...and u have 83+ OL... stop bragging then about numbers... and if u try talking about "evil" russians kick xBelial first - ( strange that your clan not evil russians got many 85 ppl...u gain exp from pvp ???)
Last time u lose many fair fights too.... but again: for TD 9 vs 9 is still fair even if TD got 9 85 heroes vs 9 S graders.... thats why u like numbers - it sounds more pro and more fair...
And if u stopped caring why u still freaky feed at oly ? Clans as yours aka "merge X random clans for top force" never are long on top... u are not friends - u are just bunch tools for win / farm epic...
Funny also u talking about software ??? Your last CL is banned... u moved to enmity and now roleplaying enmity with TD crest... what a irony
Dont bring here blah things Dinix..... KNOW THY CLAN! AmberEye is always rdy for GMs visits! Your clan is rdy too ??
I've been pvping on bartz since c1, where have you been? You wait until there is barely anyone left on the server and NCSoft work on removing any competitive element to the game then you come out of your hole. You go with 70 people to frint, no one even brought those numbers to frint back when the jewel was actually worth something. It still blows my mind that you failed with 5 parties though, no wonder killing him is still so exciting for you. In all honesty I just think it sucks you started stepping so late in the game after pretty much everyone quit and at a point were high level players don't have anything in the game to do, beleth broken and all other bosses boring as hell after months of unchallenged farming. It's bad enough that most raid bosses already have to be done on lowbie subs in order to get drops, but soon they'll be completely instanced and the lineage 2 experience will be like playing on a private server alone with your clan.
Vestige admitted to spam reporting TD members for all kinds of things but so far we have never had a ban for botting, all you have is some edited 30 sec video of belial killing mobs, ever wonder why they cut out the fraps before killing him? You were the one starting to talk about legitimacy, I can admit that there are most likely people in TD who use some programs and hide it well while people in your clan and alliance openly use it and some don't even pretend to be legit when they bsoe over and over from daggers in hide. Only difference between you and me is that I don't lie to myself.
As for a fair fight, I don't think I ever talked about fair fights. The fact that you need so many people to beat us is just means you're weak, playing at a level we were at years ago, have no to very little pvp experience and that the game sucks more than ever. But thats a whole other discussion. This thread should be about how much NCSoft sucks for making vague statements that don't mean anything to try to show community involvement while they in reality don't really care about players, never engage in any kind of discussions about the game and refuse to go out of their way to help.
sitting at hole ??? seems same as TD vs UPRISING ? ... short memory ??
In AE we dont use any software and u still defend XBelial ... u talking also about one fraps from Wiznick vs Doomcaster ??? Your 30 sec from fog prove nothing... he can bsoe/pr vs mobs (he is not poler right?)
they'll be completely instanced and the lineage 2 experience will be like playing on a private server alone with your clan.
U do it last 2 years at Bratz without competition and it was good for TD (real $$) ??? dont u feels like a private server ????
The fact that you need so many people to beat us is just means you're weak, playing at a level we were at years ago
Didnt u merge your last enemies long time ago and fight togheter vs. 7x A/S graders insult them all time at hero chat ?
Time to stop offtopic...personally i dont wanna Bartz without TD - it will be second Sayha :(
Maybe if you had actually played in the old wars I might listen, you obviously use blah as a source for info.
And you're right the last 2 years sucked, game isn't at all as fun as it used to be. Only thing really keeping people here is playing with friends but with the amount of people quitting thats becoming less and less of a reason as well. Only thing you could have done to make TD members stay is be more active earlier in the game and not quit, maybe you would have helped keep the server interesting. But even then pvp'ing for the same boss for 4 years would most likely get old.
I don't really see the purpose of this post at all. If you don't bot then you made perfectly clear that they aren't at risk so why would you care if your clan mates do it if those are the people who you have become friends with over the years and choose to play with?
All you really seem to be saying is that if you don't bot you have nothing to worry about, but if you do bot you better make sure no one else in your clan does it or you have a higher risk of getting banned. Or did I miss something?
If you are talking about the annoyance of being bot checked and ported around that will happen anyways if your enemies spam botreport you. People in my clan get checked and even though no one has ever been banned for botting it keeps happening, sometimes even causing people to die.
And in regard to the last question, in the game that l2 has become from all the negligence people don't lie about botting. They do it proudly and their clannies know all about it. So it is not by any means a question of trust and honesty. Botting has by many accounts even become the norm on several servers over time and says nothing about the person, it's just how people choose to play a game.
I've been pvping on bartz since c1, where have you been? You wait until there is barely anyone left on the server and NCSoft work on removing any competitive element to the game then you come out of your hole. You go with 70 people to frint, no one even brought those numbers to frint back when the jewel was actually worth something. It still blows my mind that you failed with 5 parties though, no wonder killing him is still so exciting for you. In all honesty I just think it sucks you started stepping so late in the game after pretty much everyone quit and at a point were high level players don't have anything in the game to do, beleth broken and all other bosses boring as hell after months of unchallenged farming. It's bad enough that most raid bosses already have to be done on lowbie subs in order to get drops, but soon they'll be completely instanced and the lineage 2 experience will be like playing on a private server alone with your clan.
Vestige admitted to spam reporting TD members for all kinds of things but so far we have never had a ban for botting, all you have is some edited 30 sec video of belial killing mobs, ever wonder why they cut out the fraps before killing him? You were the one starting to talk about legitimacy, I can admit that there are most likely people in TD who use some programs and hide it well while people in your clan and alliance openly use it and some don't even pretend to be legit when they bsoe over and over from daggers in hide. Only difference between you and me is that I don't lie to myself.
As for a fair fight, I don't think I ever talked about fair fights. The fact that you need so many people to beat us is just means you're weak, playing at a level we were at years ago, have no to very little pvp experience and that the game sucks more than ever. But thats a whole other discussion. This thread should be about how much NCSoft sucks for making vague statements that don't mean anything to try to show community involvement while they in reality don't really care about players, never engage in any kind of discussions about the game and refuse to go oAut of their way to help.
You totally miss it, there is some thread where you said to try the game by yourself, i suggest you to do two different tests, play in US based server time and Euro based server time (Not Luna), both can give you different views of the game.
About Clans, i lead one of the few Legit's clans in Franz server, i really dont care what this ppl say on this boards about violating the eula, and about the impossibility of being legit in L2.
I left Teon with my wife 2 weeks or something before Franz launch, and i builded the clan alone on Franz first seconds, the newbie weapon that was given to the players by the time last for a few hours only at me, to kill the automated dwarfs to get my crafter done with the class quest.
Few random ppl have joined the clan, some seeking just someone to chat with, some just hoping for more constant party then shout for party all the time, slowly the clan grow only one of the players from my old clan add back to the game to play with me, since the start and was a slow start doing alone any player suspicious were hunted for a proof, and many got kicked from my clan since then.
If all the players who have been here for more than 6 months, or maybe one year would stay, it would be impossible to have them all in the clan, during this slowly step we add more than 400 players here, but why they left?
5% - Some have just quit the game, players since OB prefered to leave the game after this last try to see Lineage like the good old days. Sadly many play random private servers!
5% - Others have just stoped playing, no time, real life issues, didn't like the game, etc.
10% - Were kicked for violating the clan rules that match basicly the current eula, mostly for using 3rd part programs, since buying adena is not easy to take proof against it.
20% - Add a few more respect for me and the rest of the team, left the clan before decided to run 3rd part programs, some just argumented having no time to play, other's just wanted to reach high level faster, others claimed to be tired of the grind in game.
35% - Left for higher goals, my current clan as many others in the servers, is unable to do any epic boss, we have no levels to pvp against the top ones, specially when they are based in programs that attack exacly the classes to make us more weak.
Few left cause we couldnt have a solid party in Hellbound when they have hit lvl 78.
Others were tired to feel under the big clans orders, or able to do what they permit us to do with so many limitations, that they ended joining those clans.
From the last % of players i would say not even 75% stayed legit players, some started boting by themselfs, others started running only on the boxed buffer till later get the main toon using it too, others started only by joining 3rd part bot parties to get XP.
So atm we are a happy 40 / 45 players clan, with like 70% being here for years now, and all working hardly to get into level 80 at this state, we dont have top levels (i could be around level 82 , if i didnt took near 6 months break), but we are happy and have a lot of fun as a group of friends.
Ofc from the current amount of ppl, more will leave soon or later for the lack of being able to do the top things in game, many end leaving the game at a later step, others just end up being one more automated toon like one old member who got hero few days ago, who was against that usage, and now he dont play by himsefl anymore, others end up leaving those higher clans due to lack of party, and get that playing by a program that decide your actions is a crap, but they are not allowed to back to my clan, some dont even think about it too, many of those join a lot of clans leave, join, leave till one day just leave the game.
Others just leave cause we can't get a SA crystal for their finally crafted S80 weapon, they cant pay 1.5b like the current price on Franz, so they leave and join the big clans, i consider those even worst, since they are acting as a greedy person, but soon or later those end up starting to use the same automated things.
Many of those higher clans in fact introduce to the players the automated programs, and advise players to use it, thats why few of those who join there have left, also their open forums add statements about how to use correctly those programs, they dont hide from anyone, or say they dont do it or use it even in game chat.
So this post doesn't make any sence at all, being really honest, if some clans who lose players in the last big ban, were verified, i can tell you with 300% sure that those clans would be losing 70% or more of the players, and many of the rest on that clans are their own alts.
Also this last ban have proof that ppl are not being banned by IP adress, at least there was someone who got is GF banned, and he was automated in other party and didnt got any issue.
One of the currently Heroes as been killed currently for the 3rd day, botting in FOG with is boxed buffer, and been reported at leat by 3 players and currently is there, and tomorrow, and so on till that bar gets into 85 and 100% XP
All this reasons, make this thread look useless, and put ppl mad specially the ones who have been reporting from years and still are unable to be part of some higher things, or just want to play as equal with the others, many ppl on this forums say that is players fault, if ppl were not greedy, and not seeking top the bots should not exist, for me they only exist since NC Support badly clean the game, and many times they did any act they choosed ramdom lower level ppl, if they add start from the top clans specially leaders, then heroes, then by top levels, many would be afraid to use those programs, and this boards would be clean of posts about bots like this one have turned once more.
If Sace cant understand why so many threads end like this, i really suggest to spend sometime in both time servers, to try to get into some of the supposed legit clans, then at a later stage step into one of the top clans, in fact that should be something mandatory to anyone in the support team, since many times we add conflicts in the petitions cause the support answering guy have no clue about what we are talking.
Take this post how you want, for me is in the right place, personally i see the bot thread as a place to try to get all the anoying things toguether and keep the rest of the forum clean, but after so many years there is more players mad at this, and CM after CM we cant see anything as just a promisse, even when the random bans happen on the servers.
So my suggestion is to avoid this kind of threads, Sace is CM not Game Support, and i guess many of this issues should not be open to deal with, but your part of the voice we have from anyone at NC side, year after year we get new promisses, new better systems to detect those cheaters, etc.
But for ppl who know something more about code, and how things work, in name of those i have to tell you, they only exist cause NC West permit them to exist.
Till one day i turn my own mind i will be playing here, i dont believe myself running any 3rd part tool as a final stage on my career of being a good player, i would just leave to my old clan who still play in private servers.
I would like to thank the posters on this thread for saving me some transfer money.
No need to transfer from a server with botted heros that can't attract enough friends to create a viable force to fight the zerg to a server with the exact same issues.
I would like to thank the posters on this thread for saving me some transfer money.
No need to transfer from a server with botted heros that can't attract enough friends to create a viable force to fight the zerg to a server with the exact same issues.
You should be used to similar situations, you are from Erica.
I would like to thank the posters on this thread for saving me some transfer money.
No need to transfer from a server with botted heros that can't attract enough friends to create a viable force to fight the zerg to a server with the exact same issues.
Bartz isn't quite like that. We have one clan controlling all heroes and pretty much taking what they want, the members are pretty much whats left of all powerhouses on bartz and some fresh blood, but by no means a very large clan. The rest of the server are mostly people who just recently got to the level where they can participate in end game content and have also recently zerged up to steal some raid boss spawns. Once td gets weak enough bartz could probably be a pretty fun server for some people but with no strong clans to take on the endgame content. It will go from a beleth killing server to a server where clans still have issues killing frint which imo is sad.
Bartz isn't quite like that. We have one clan controlling all heroes and pretty much taking what they want, the members are pretty much whats left of all powerhouses on bartz and some fresh blood, but by no means a very large clan. The rest of the server are mostly people who just recently got to the level where they can participate in end game content and have also recently zerged up to steal some raid boss spawns. Once td gets weak enough bartz could probably be a pretty fun server for some people but with no strong clans to take on the endgame content. It will go from a beleth killing server to a server where clans still have issues killing frint which imo is sad.
i rather think that a server's condition can be labelled "sad" when even those who have worked hard (legitimately or not, regardless) to earn the level and skill and gear to participate in fun end game things are simply locked out by reason of an emphatically bigger, stronger force accrues to control said things.
the argument that you only need to have 300 more friends with high level stuff to compete is by reason of server size and new incoming players (little to none at all) an invalid argument.
you cannot have a big powerful clan, and a two sided evenly distributed war effort. there just isnt enough people. either you have a fun server that participates in end game content every day, or you have 1 dominant clan that stagnates in its size with no competition.
you can't have it both ways unless you force the issue, and last time i checked the server merges were a flop for two of the three destination servers. Phoenix is about the only server that has success in the merge - pretty solid distribution of heroes, fairly large clans, and lively emo qqing accross more than 1 forum over pvp's.
on aria and sayha i cannot say the same thing.
for this rason a LOT of players will not take to a merge, to create the fun. too many have fun in the 1 big stagnant clan. you may say you want good 2 way wars and many players vieing for competition but in actual fact if you DID want these things (not you dininx but players who say they want these things) you'd have transferred to Pheonix along with most of Sayha who has already done so.
as i recall (and i do bring up an interesting point) Nova left Bartz for Sayha. from there it moved again to Phoenix.
The****ed can't be the kind of clan that likes competition. if it were, you'd have moved with Nova.
call whatever political bullhonking required, but the point still stands. TD stagnates with no competition along with the condition of Bartz.
at face value this post may seem a little off topic but i think it brings up valid points about clan politics; size, power, and focus determine the direction of a clan, towards end game pve or end game pvp. clans that grow so large and powerful will naturally dominate in both areas - however clans must concede the fact that dominance does create barriers for friendly pvp. you can face the same people over and over, beat them every time, but then what happens? some are driven to cheat, others are driven to quit.
from the condition of 7 of the existing servers i'd say a lot of it has been driving to quit. and then the fun is over.
my last point is not one i can answer for myself (being my game focus is not on pve or pvp) and it goes like this: what does a person do when their competition is gone? fight clanmates for an hour each night, feeding points to make a hero for no other reason than to say "you get to be hero this month, be sure to zerk us at the raid later" ?
surely (now i am speculating) one goes off to find new friends, instead.
You should be used to similar situations, you are from Erica.
Yes I am, glad you "noticed" me from that era. I am a proud non-factor and I plan to stay that way.
Yes, I am very familiar with the situation, hence my recent thoughts about relocating to a different server. For those that don't know, the situation on Sayha (nee Erica) is sad. With loud-mouthed bot-heros complaining about the bot-zerg (rightly or wrongly) in zero-chat and still can't beat the numbers. They take their frustrations out on legits trying to XP that really couldn't care less about the state of PvP on the server. From this discussion it seems that this is the state on all the servers, which saves me the trouble.
If what was said about Bartz is true, they are in worse shape then even Sayha where the bot-heros are from the same clan as the bot-zerg. (that should bring back some Erica memories) Though, for my play style it might be worth making a new toon there and checking it out.
Yes I am, glad you "noticed" me from that era. I am a proud non-factor and I plan to stay that way.
Yes, I am very familiar with the situation, hence my recent thoughts about relocating to a different server. For those that don't know, the situation on Sayha (nee Erica) is sad. With loud-mouthed bot-heros complaining about the bot-zerg (rightly or wrongly) in zero-chat and still can't beat the numbers. They take their frustrations out on legits trying to XP that really couldn't care less about the state of PvP on the server. From this discussion it seems that this is the state on all the servers, which saves me the trouble.
If what was said about Bartz is true, they are in worse shape then even Sayha where the bot-heros are from the same clan as the bot-zerg. (that should bring back some Erica memories) Though, for my play style it might be worth making a new toon there and checking it out.
Nah, no side on bartz blatantly bots. There are always people using third party programs for whatever reason but you'll never find bot parties. TD is the strong smaller clan that controls heroes. TD puts up maybe 5 parties at siege, 2-3 parties for any raid. The so called zerg goes to frint with about 7 parties and might win depending on the strength of the 2-3 td parties. In sieges if both sides fight heads on they'll have about twice the number and will take down maybe 3 people before dying, so that hasn't really changed.
The "top clans" on Bartz do not need to bot anymore because they already are max level so what is the point...
Sace: The first mistake was leaving this thread open to comments, granted you are new here but anyone at NCNA could have told you that there would be a fire storm over a post like that.
With saying that, please do not let this thread get the best of you and keep you from giving the players information, BUT be ready for the "forum anger" from people that been with the game longer that you have.
The "top clans" on Bartz do not need to bot anymore because they already are max level so what is the point...
Sace: The first mistake was leaving this thread open to comments, granted you are new here but anyone at NCNA could have told you that there would be a fire storm over a post like that.
With saying that, please do not let this thread get the best of you and keep you from giving the players information, BUT be ready for the "forum anger" from people that been with the game longer that you have.
Make a silly post like that and of course the replies won't be very enlightening. Sace obviously still doesn't understand the game and its community, that's nothing you learn on these forums where only a few people post and the minority that is roleplayers and lowbie carebears is clearly overrepresented. Well maybe not a minority for much longer seeing what kind of attitude both nckorea and ncwest have when working on this game.
strong words from boxed support char :) i bet u maked your lvl as box in tully when lethal works great... lowbie carebears haha u make my day.... yesterday TD STS 80+ and another char maked bsoe vs unbuffed BD (2 side war) ... highlvl carebears ? :)
ohh and about controling heroes... TD is usally NA, Bartz is NA and enemies are euro... (oly for euro is 1:00AM - 7:00AM - nice if someone got family and full time job...) Control at this dead server where WR hero got hero with 9 wins... ? lulz...
Well maybe not a minority
Indeed. Just not the same "majority" as in hero chat and on cheaters' sites.
for much longer seeing what kind of attitude both nckorea and ncwest have when working on this game.
NC Korea tries to please the majority of their players. NC West just doesn't care (nor has the resources to).
Way to completely miss the point, the reason why it might not be the majority much longer is because of the amount of good players quitting. Most people who have played this game are by now means low players or players happy with playing maybe an hour a day. The more you expect out of the game the bigger the disappointment it is when NCsoft let you down and it can hardly come as a shock that people are tired of the lame support staff, thats pretty much the one thing that everyone can agree on. It's probably the main reason so many private servers even exist. In all fairness with some exaggeration roleplayers could be just as happy with a MUD as long as it had the forums and community value of l2.
And to that other person, I level'd to 84 using my bd to aoe in darkness and 85 from pulling rooms for slickeroo and tapatia in tullys. Just shows how you are absolutely clueless to how people in TD got the levels they have. And TD has a lot more euro players these days than NA, you guys probably have more NA players than we do except that ours don't suck.
84 in darkness... gz! I seen hows xBelial gets lvls and many of u in last 2 years before get tag... it is enough ... or mass force log offs at green spot where only 1 puller was alive ... your players dont suck ???? Did u seen your new recuits in PVP action ??? Zenak, Mcking - i dont think so... look also at your heroes - 0 sec wins ftw...
Anthon and Slickeroo powerlvl too many bad ppl :/ but anthon recognize it faster & quit... TD never was and never will be second UPRISING
Way to completely miss the point,
I haven't missed your point. I have said that your point is wrong. You have got some correct observations about the state of the game, but your assumption that you represent the majority of the L2 players is wrong.
the reason why it might not be the majority much longer is because
...it has never been the majority.
I haven't missed your point. I have said that your point is wrong. You have got some correct observations about the state of the game, but your assumption that you represent the majority of the L2 players is wrong.
...it has never been the majority.
Well that was a misstype it was supposed to be minority and if you go back and read my posts I never claimed to represent a majority, why would I even want to associate myself with most l2 players. I said that certain people are overrepresented on the official forums and that this is a horrible place to get to know what actually happens on the servers. I really don't see what you are trying to argue. Good high end players just keep quitting due to shortcomings in the game and in the support making the low end players grow in proportion to the server population.
I said that certain people are overrepresented on the official forums
They aren't "overrepresented". They actually represent the majority of the players.
and that this is a horrible place to get to know what actually happens on the servers.
This is an ok place. However, in order to "to get to know" it's not enough to only have a place. The willingness to listen and the ability to understand are needed too. And that's what NC West has been lacking so far.
Make a silly post like that and of course the replies won't be very enlightening. Sace obviously still doesn't understand the game and its community, that's nothing you learn on these forums where only a few people post and the minority that is roleplayers and lowbie carebears is clearly overrepresented. Well maybe not a minority for much longer seeing what kind of attitude both nckorea and ncwest have when working on this game.
They aren't "overrepresented". They actually represent the majority of the players.
I believe Dininx was saying carebears and roleplayers are overrepresented on these boards. I seriously doubt roleplayers and carebears represent the majority of the players.
Most of the posters on the official forums are carebears and/or roleplayers. Most of the posters on these boards can't figure out if you want your clan to succeed then the clan members need to work together. Whether or not TD is a bot clan is irrelevant, TD succeeds because TD figured out they need to work together to succeed. The clans that succeed aren't here whining and complaining about everyone else being higher than they are, the successful aren't here whining and complaining about bots, etc.
I believe Dininx was saying carebears and roleplayers are overrepresented on these boards. I seriously doubt roleplayers and carebears represent the majority of the players.
Actually... in this day and age I see more carebears in game, than people who want to pvp.
Most of the posters on the official forums are carebears and/or roleplayers. Most of the posters on these boards can't figure out if you want your clan to succeed then the clan members need to work together. Whether or not TD is a bot clan is irrelevant, TD succeeds because TD figured out they need to work together to succeed. The clans that succeed aren't here whining and complaining about everyone else being higher than they are, the successful aren't here whining and complaining about bots, etc.
I am glad someone besides me and Dininx understand the difference between an end-game pvp clan and pve-clan.
I believe Dininx was saying carebears and roleplayers are overrepresented on these boards. I seriously doubt roleplayers and carebears represent the majority of the players.
Most of the posters on the official forums are carebears and/or roleplayers. Most of the posters on these boards can't figure out if you want your clan to succeed then the clan members need to work together. Whether or not TD is a bot clan is irrelevant, TD succeeds because TD figured out they need to work together to succeed. The clans that succeed aren't here whining and complaining about everyone else being higher than they are, the successful aren't here whining and complaining about bots, etc.
success is the accomplishment of a goal. my goals as a carebear are different than your goals as a whatever-you-are.
i am successful, no less than you.
last i counted there was 1 roleplay clan in all L2, located on Aria. the players you see represented here are not these roleplayers. you dont even know what roleplay is i bet.
Spud, you missed my point, I was not defining who is and is not successful. My point was, w/e your clan's goals are, if no one in the clan collectively works towards those goals they will not be met.
Spud, you missed my point, I was not defining who is and is not successful. My point was, w/e your clan's goals are, if no one in the clan collectively works towards those goals they will not be met.
At least Spudnik succeeded in missing the point.
Otherwise he would run the risk of being a complete failure.
I believe Dininx was saying carebears and roleplayers are overrepresented on these boards. I seriously doubt roleplayers and carebears represent the majority of the players.
Most of the posters on the official forums are carebears and/or roleplayers. Most of the posters on these boards can't figure out if you want your clan to succeed then the clan members need to work together. Whether or not TD is a bot clan is irrelevant, TD succeeds because TD figured out they need to work together to succeed. The clans that succeed aren't here whining and complaining about everyone else being higher than they are, the successful aren't here whining and complaining about bots, etc.
gee it sounds to me like youre moaning that low levels are having fun as a low level...
goals are set by individuals, not by groups.
groups get together to accomplish other people's goals. led by the person requiring the prize at the end of the tunnel.
if MY goal was simply to get my first Zaken raid done, then i go ask around, shout LFG. when it is over, ive accomplished my goal despite the aid of a group.
if a clan gets together and says "we're going to lock down Valakas for a week" then you either go with it, or dont. you choose to participate in the group's activity; by the same line of thinking you voluntarily enter into botting, or ebaying as the case may be.
if your goal is so **** high that you cannot attain it, youre dreaming.
you cannot tell me however that nonfactor low 70's clan X that maybe has 10 players, 8 of whom log in for 2 hrs a day, and 4 days of 7 play alts, ever "makes a goal" to get to high level pvp clan by "coming together"
no, this doesnt happen. clans form under the umbrella guise that "ABC clan is a good pvp clan" knowing that this ABC clan spent 0 time levelling their own toons, has 8 accounts per member, and carries a personal warehouse of billions /// or was led by member EFG from other clan who quit over some drama and wants to get old clannies back.
once the characters get in, they find a war, they start fighting, and sweep whatever shady past may or may not have occurred under the rug.
bottom line here, clans dont set goals. people have goals. you want to join an established pvp clan, and fight and win. those are 3 very popular goals set by almost every L2 player. yet for many, the price is too steep.
who knows and who cares really, what goes on with other players when their "constant party" has to end for the night. this is but a guise anyway. everyone knows you can't spend 45minutes in Hellbound, and then have to go to grandma's house. you wont ever get groups. you get your group, download the script, setup your bot, and go to grandma's house. 4 hours later the party is over and grandma is asleep.
you gotta have no life to play L2 to 85 legit. your day job better not put you into overtime hours either, or your HB groups are poojed.
this is why you see so many players between 76 and 80. they all have day jobs. they can't commit the time to high level and arent willing to sacrifice YEARS of hard work to bot.
the argument that you dont have to is a moot argument too; your PVP clans take control of areas, kick out the other players, and will not tolerate competition as it is met with lethal force. ive heard dozens of stories about nova going around to IOP parties back on Sayha and demanding payment of all orihalcum, else the group would meet their end.
if/when L2 makes PVE zones instanced to get to 85, you can kiss any hope of playing legit goodbye. you will not be able to control instanced zones, thus the servers will not be 1 sided for very long. every single player that steps foot outside a safe zone will find himself facing pvp, most of which against players with controlled programs.
after all, if joe average cannot spend 8 hours at tully's workshop AOEING to 85 then he will have to suffer lesser exp for longer periods of time.
gee it sounds to me like youre moaning that low levels are having fun as a low level...
goals are set by individuals, not by groups.
groups get together to accomplish other people's goals. led by the person requiring the prize at the end of the tunnel.
if MY goal was simply to get my first Zaken raid done, then i go ask around, shout LFG. when it is over, ive accomplished my goal despite the aid of a group.
if a clan gets together and says "we're going to lock down Valakas for a week" then you either go with it, or dont. you choose to participate in the group's activity; by the same line of thinking you voluntarily enter into botting, or ebaying as the case may be.
if your goal is so **** high that you cannot attain it, youre dreaming.
you cannot tell me however that nonfactor low 70's clan X that maybe has 10 players, 8 of whom log in for 2 hrs a day, and 4 days of 7 play alts, ever "makes a goal" to get to high level pvp clan by "coming together"
no, this doesnt happen. clans form under the umbrella guise that "ABC clan is a good pvp clan" knowing that this ABC clan spent 0 time levelling their own toons, has 8 accounts per member, and carries a personal warehouse of billions /// or was led by member EFG from other clan who quit over some drama and wants to get old clannies back.
once the characters get in, they find a war, they start fighting, and sweep whatever shady past may or may not have occurred under the rug.
bottom line here, clans dont set goals. people have goals. you want to join an established pvp clan, and fight and win. those are 3 very popular goals set by almost every L2 player. yet for many, the price is too steep.
who knows and who cares really, what goes on with other players when their "constant party" has to end for the night. this is but a guise anyway. everyone knows you can't spend 45minutes in Hellbound, and then have to go to grandma's house. you wont ever get groups. you get your group, download the script, setup your bot, and go to grandma's house. 4 hours later the party is over and grandma is asleep.
you gotta have no life to play L2 to 85 legit. your day job better not put you into overtime hours either, or your HB groups are poojed.
this is why you see so many players between 76 and 80. they all have day jobs. they can't commit the time to high level and arent willing to sacrifice YEARS of hard work to bot.
the argument that you dont have to is a moot argument too; your PVP clans take control of areas, kick out the other players, and will not tolerate competition as it is met with lethal force. ive heard dozens of stories about nova going around to IOP parties back on Sayha and demanding payment of all orihalcum, else the group would meet their end.
if/when L2 makes PVE zones instanced to get to 85, you can kiss any hope of playing legit goodbye. you will not be able to control instanced zones, thus the servers will not be 1 sided for very long. every single player that steps foot outside a safe zone will find himself facing pvp, most of which against players with controlled programs.
after all, if joe average cannot spend 8 hours at tully's workshop AOEING to 85 then he will have to suffer lesser exp for longer periods of time.
Well, not sure about those numbers exacly, but I could still do over 1% an hour in tullys.
yeah. and in your travels will you take players into your group who can only play 2 buffgrounds?
can you honestly say your group was willing to load up a new recruit, and for an entire month power level this person every day ?
1% an hour is one thing, but saying one can keep up this number and freely give this exp to anyone who asks, or set aside one's personal goals in view of someone else's levelling for a month to prove it is another.
so, not true.
1% an hour is possible. no dispute. but 6hrs a day, 7 days a week, for 30 days is not.
for two reasons: one, clans do PVP. specially them big ones with the fancy gear and cosmic glows. pve for 6 hrs a day is exhausting enough, let alone the need to stop for bathroom breaks and food processing or baby napping. through the course of a week, clans will also do big raids, do TW, do Forts, do sieges, and other big style things that would otherwise eat into a 6hr day.
second reason: you fed right into my previous point; 85 is not possible to do unless you DONT have those other things to do. if you have a day job, you arent 85. if you are, then youve botted, or been powerlevelled by friends with access to your account.
as safe as the assumption is that they wont screw you down the road, youve now committed at least one act against the rules.
thanks for proving the point.
i'm not accusing or pointing the finger at anyone in this thread or on these forums. lots of players have been 85 for a long time, and some have been around since the earliest days of the game, including myself. but where i lacked in /played time, others flourished. thats the only reason for the accomplishment of ultra high level. if it were something that didnt take time then we wouldnt be having this discussion.
yeah. and in your travels will you take players into your group who can only play 2 buffgrounds?
can you honestly say your group was willing to load up a new recruit, and for an entire month power level this person every day ?
1% an hour is one thing, but saying one can keep up this number and freely give this exp to anyone who asks, or set aside one's personal goals in view of someone else's levelling for a month to prove it is another.
so, not true.
1% an hour is possible. no dispute. but 6hrs a day, 7 days a week, for 30 days is not.
for two reasons: one, clans do PVP. specially them big ones with the fancy gear and cosmic glows. pve for 6 hrs a day is exhausting enough, let alone the need to stop for bathroom breaks and food processing or baby napping. through the course of a week, clans will also do big raids, do TW, do Forts, do sieges, and other big style things that would otherwise eat into a 6hr day.
second reason: you fed right into my previous point; 85 is not possible to do unless you DONT have those other things to do. if you have a day job, you arent 85. if you are, then youve botted, or been powerlevelled by friends with access to your account.
as safe as the assumption is that they wont screw you down the road, youve now committed at least one act against the rules.
thanks for proving the point.
i'm not accusing or pointing the finger at anyone in this thread or on these forums. lots of players have been 85 for a long time, and some have been around since the earliest days of the game, including myself. but where i lacked in /played time, others flourished. thats the only reason for the accomplishment of ultra high level. if it were something that didnt take time then we wouldnt be having this discussion.
Welcome to the world of lineage 2, where cheating is practically needed for you to compete.
for tullys aoe you just need a titan and buffs, box a cov, prophet, bd and sws and a titan can solo there indefinitely. or if you just have access to a strong titan you play that while having yourself sit there. If you are 2 people you split up the boxing and can pull all rooms, it really shouldn't be hard to keep 2 people going for 6hours a day+. The rest of the people who come to leech you just invite them and let them stay as long they can or you want them to. Once you have the method down it really isn't much harder than solo poling darkness or fog.
for tullys aoe you just need a titan and buffs, box a cov, prophet, bd and sws and a titan can solo there indefinitely. or if you just have access to a strong titan you play that while having yourself sit there. If you are 2 people you split up the boxing and can pull all rooms, it really shouldn't be hard to keep 2 people going for 6hours a day+. The rest of the people who come to leech you just invite them and let them stay as long they can or you want them to. Once you have the method down it really isn't much harder than solo poling darkness or fog.
I have to say you are a joke, definition of a box or a solo grind in this game is anoying
So in fact you need 4 support classes and a Titan, your definition of Solo is very compex, in simple mode you say you are playing one toon and running 4 in background to support you, and thats only if you hae a Titan!
I love the Pro Skills of some ppl here, and many call me crazy when i box 4 accounts, but SWS and BD, dont make a joke on forums, btw you also need to expell all that adds from the party to reach those %, but ofc i know some ppl do it...
and yeah just for you amusement, even when I played my bd in darkness I boxed an oop one just so I would never have to stop hitting mobs, have to maximize that xp
edit: and about the tullys, I never leeched or was boxed in tullys, only bds with +time are used for that, when I was there I was either playing the titan or pulling extra rooms for more xp
A nation consists of individual people, when enough of those individual people decide on a certain plan you can matter-of-factually state that nation has a plan, thus treating that collective as an individual. Therefore, when enough people in a clan decide to collectively work on a goal, you can say that clan has a goal thus treating that clan as an individual (ie "Here comes TD," instead of, "Here comes TD's members" OR "TD has a plan," instead of "TD's members have a plan").
TD collectively works together, they play together, they learn together. While I haven't participated in any of this I have actually seen it enough times to know this. I'm sure TD has cliques, but those cliques know how to work together when necessary. Their cliques may work interchangeably where needed.
Other clans on Bartz work the same, though not as well. These clans grow on a clique basis, and only work together as a clan when they need to instead of working interchangeably. These clans manage to fight, and sometimes win, against TD. Usually, though, they only win when outnumbering TD.
Too many clans, however, are nothing but cliques and serve no purpose towards the clan, thus only the cliques grow and not the clan itself. Often times these cliques are so wrapped up in themselves they don't even know who all is in their clan. These are usually the people that work individually of the clan trying to get their levels and gear on their own (a person can work individually of a clan, a clique can work individually of a clan). Too many people fall in this category, these are generally the ones crying on the boards about TD (and/or other clans).
Side Note: As for HB, I've never done Tully's, but I was in a HB group the other night for my first time. We fought the mobs near the port in (junior watchmen and junior summoners I think). The xp was coming in so fast I felt like I was level 20 again.
"Quote:
Originally Posted by pix
kind of a pointless propoganda post given that no legit player minds being checked out cos they know they are legit :-S
The things I would like to say about the stupidity of this post would get me permanently banned. Read your history then think hard about this ideal. "
well we agree on one thing i can be pretty stupid (prefer the term simplistic:-P) and at the risk of sounding even more stupid what history ?
I seriously doubt roleplayers and carebears represent the majority of the players.
They do. They always did. And of course they are the vast majority of the target audience of the game, both in Korea and here.
Most of the posters on the official forums are carebears and/or roleplayers. Most of the posters on these boards can't figure out if you want your clan to succeed then the clan members need to work together. Whether or not TD is a bot clan is irrelevant,
And what does all this have to do with GMs not being able to know the state of the game just by reading the forums?
TD succeeds because TD figured out they need to work together to succeed.
I wouldn't call mass-quitting out of boredom "success". But we digress.
Spoken to Dininx:
I haven't missed your point. I have said that your point is wrong. You have got some correct observations about the state of the game, but your assumption that you represent the majority of the L2 players is wrong.
Spoken to me:
They do. They always did. And of course they are the vast majority of the target audience of the game, both in Korea and here.
Thus, "It is so because I say it so." You have no merit in your arguments.
And what does all this have to do with GMs not being able to know the state of the game just by reading the forums?
I wouldn't call mass-quitting out of boredom "success". But we digress.
I may not always be right, I may often be wrong, but you speak only to hear yourself. Try for substance and I might take you seriously.
Both yours and mine are ingame (i.e. subjective) observations. However, mine better fits the facts (Korean level statistics, lineage2.com community opinion, Korean game development decisions based on Korean ingame statistics and on Korean forum opinions).
Both yours and mine are ingame (i.e. subjective) observations. However, mine better fits the facts (Korean level statistics, lineage2.com community opinion, Korean game development decisions based on Korean ingame statistics and on Korean forum opinions).
-Korean Level Statistics: I assume this to mean the levels of Korean Players, I base my argument off this assumption.
So, by this then, if you are not a certain level then you are a carebear and/or a Roleplayer. How does level dictate carebear and/or roleplayer? So if you are not above a certain level then you cannot be a hardcore player?
What? You are arguing against this attitude by stating it is true? (EDIT: I believe you have stated before that level doesn't dictate anything, yet now it looks like you say it does.)
-Lineage2.com community opinion and Korean game development decisions based on Korean ingame statistics and on Korean forum opinions:
So because the majority of the posters on Lineage2.com and/or the Korean forums say one thing is so then that is so? What about the fact that most L2 players don't post on these boards?
Statistical opinions do not equal fact except by intended observation of such (ie bias).
(EDIT: I will give you credit where it is due. You have provided substance in your argument. Note that I say substance does not necessarily make one correct, including myself.)
How have people come to the conclusion that all those of a certain level/gear/etc are illegitimate?
"Hey you got level 82, fully elemented s-80 gear, Full Boss set, 20 skills to +20, (fill in the blank) you obviously cheat!"
Actually, I know the answer.
Ok, so many people do cheat, that does not mean all. If they cheat now at 80+, then they probably cheated before as well. If they cheated before 80, how do we know that you don't cheat before 80? So it's plainly obvious that you don't have to be a certain level to be a cheater, thus people now come to the conclusion that everyone cheats. Well if everyone cheats, then one can logically conclude you do as well. The word "you" is not directed towards any one person.
I am lvl 79 and i have not cheat and i will never cheat same if i were lvl 85.
Cheat is for looser,player cheat to get better because they can't have what they need by them self so they are just looser.
I pay the game to play not to let a stupid programe play for me.
** ** i must be more fast to target i will cheat!
** ** i must see ennemi near of me before they see me i will cheat!!
** ** i can't spam cp potion/take hp potion (or elexir ) cause i can not play well in spaming and atk in same time i will cheat!!!
** ** daguer kill me with back stab..... i need some ting to make front to front when they back stab,i will cheat!!!!
** ** i must target this class in first so i will cheat!!!!!
Anyway,cheat is for looser thats all,they need programe to play the game,its so patetic...
-Korean Level Statistics: I assume this to mean the levels of Korean Players, I base my argument off this assumption.
So, by this then, if you are not a certain level then you are a carebear and/or a Roleplayer. How does level dictate carebear and/or roleplayer? So if you are not above a certain level then you cannot be a hardcore player?
When those players that accuse others in being "carebears" and "roleplayers" don't hide their level, it's almost always higher than those 78-79 most Koreans had in ct2.3.
And I don't think there's anything other than those accusations that actually "dictate carebear and/or roleplayer". We have seen (both ingame and here on forums) people going from "carebear" to "top dog" just by joining the right clan and then back to "carebear" by leaving it. People are able to adapt to the situation, they aren't going to fight when it's unfeasible and they have other things to do.
What? You are arguing against this attitude by stating it is true? (EDIT: I believe you have stated before that level doesn't dictate anything, yet now it looks like you say it does.)
The level does affect the ability of people to win in nolimit competitions. Why would I ever state otherwise?
-Lineage2.com community opinion and Korean game development decisions based on Korean ingame statistics and on Korean forum opinions:
So because the majority of the posters on Lineage2.com and/or the Korean forums say one thing is so then that is so?
No, not "if they say so then that is so". But by default, unless proven to be false, if the vast majority of the players belong to "carebears" on the forums, the majority of the players belong to "carebears" ingame.
(EDIT: I will give you credit where it is due. You have provided substance in your argument. Note that I say substance does not necessarily make one correct, including myself.)
Ok, now your turn :p
I am lvl 79 and i have not cheat and i will never cheat same if i were lvl 85.
Cheat is for looser,player cheat to get better because they can't have what they need by them self so they are just looser.
I pay the game to play not to let a stupid programe play for me.
** ** i must be more fast to target i will cheat!
** ** i must see ennemi near of me before they see me i will cheat!!
** ** i can't spam cp potion/take hp potion (or elexir ) cause i can not play well in spaming and atk in same time i will cheat!!!
** ** daguer kill me with back stab..... i need some ting to make front to front when they back stab,i will cheat!!!!
** ** i must target this class in first so i will cheat!!!!!
Anyway,cheat is for looser thats all,they need programe to play the game,its so patetic...
English for losers also.
I do not understand why the whole drama about this post from Sace.
I bet Sace reads this thread and he is pulling his hair out after reading all the responses even though he make it clear that people that do not use 3rd parity programs do not have to be afraid of anything.
"I bet Sace reads this thread and he is pulling his hair out after reading all the responses even though he make it clear that people that do not use 3rd parity programs do not have to be afraid of anything. "
so why make the thread to start with:-S
in fairness what i have seen of sace he/she seems to be well intended but i agree ppl dont need veiled threats to watch who they play with, most legit players are suprising fussy about not only how they xp but who with.
Im a technophobe but ive been told by ppl from private servers that removing the bot content if u chose to legistically isnt very difficult (no idea maybe someone can confirm), ive personally only seen very inconsistant bans - call me a cynic but usually the odd hero or clan leader - almost a mercy kill :-P u ban ppl for account sharing yet reinstate leaders of clans that got taken by oh noes dun dun dun account sharers :-S
Rather than (at best well intended at worst bull) posts....... why not just honestly tell ppl whats what if u cant be bothered to ban bots or the revenue from them works for u say so - then we can all get over whining about it - if u dont want a corrupt game then actively get rid of them - consistancy would be my one wish from nc.
I bet Sace reads this thread and he is pulling his hair out after reading all the responses even though he make it clear that people that do not use 3rd parity programs do not have to be afraid of anything.
Yep, because posting an essentially "bot tagless if you don't want to be banned" message is what any NCsoft employee shoud do :rolleyes:
I do not understand why the whole drama about this post from Sace.
I bet Sace reads this thread and she is pulling his hair out after reading all the responses even though she make it clear that people that do not use 3rd parity programs do not have to be afraid of anything.
fixed...
Kriss vs Food - ok .. basically most, not all, of the 85/80/80/80 people open admit that they botted and most of the top clans require that you do bot - again I did not say all... but honestly... we all know the truth.
Also, Kriss - NCNA and NCK forum people are not carebears at all only 5% of them are the rest are hard core PvP players. My statement has just as much weight as yours does since NEITHER OF US have stats to back it up.
Kriss vs Food - ok .. basically most, not all, of the 85/80/80/80 people open admit that they botted and most of the top clans require that you do bot - again I did not say all... but honestly... we all know the truth.
Where are your stats to back this up?
Also, Kriss - NCNA and NCK forum people are not carebears at all only 5% of them are the rest are hard core PvP players. My statement has just as much weight as yours does since NEITHER OF US have stats to back it up.
You can tell my the topics/attitudes of a majority of the posters on this forum that they are carebears. You can also see it on the servers as well...