As we have developed our plan for the server merge, one of our concerns has been the fair distribution of Clan Halls on the new servers. Based on forum feedback it is obvious that the community shares this concern. We want to reassure you that we are planning a more fair method of clan hall distribution which will not involve the current built-in auction system. The new distribution method will take into account your clan's size, level, activity and current clan hall ownership status. There will be no racing to make bids, nor squatters taking over clan halls and reselling them for higher prices.
All of the clan halls on the new servers will be locked-down by NCsoft immediately after the merge on October 5 and will remain locked-down until the distribution process is completed.
We will post all of the information you will need about the distribution system in a few weeks. Remember, the clans that will acquire clan halls out of this process will merely be the first clans to own those halls. After this distribution process is over, there will be no further involvement by NCsoft.
I know that you will have lots of questions and suggestions about the process. We will release complete details in a few weeks. Please be patient and rest assured that this method will be fair.
sace u need to understand what is meant by the question....
if u say will be the FIRST to own them, that implys there will be a second, third and so on, or some other process of other clans getting clan halls.
if u dont want to comment on this, then take out ur comment about it meaning they will be the FIRST to own them....
or else let the flames and rumours fly lolololol
You are dumb, how can you not understand what Sace said? The clan ALWAYS has the option to resell a clanhall after NCSoft's involvement, and at that point NCSoft will not intervene.
NCSoft hosts bidding system for CH.
Clan wins bid.
NCsoft gives clan CH (FIRST).
Clan decides to sell CH.
Clan makes profit.
New clan moves in (SECOND).
implication have nothing to do with facts phoenix... my point is it allows stupid ppl to assume something other than the truth... Why not say nothing at all?
its like saying
"after merges servers will have no mobs for 10min. then mobs will appear and start to agro players. sorry for any inconvienince this may cause."
u and i know this is normal. but stupid ppl think "holy **** this changes everything!!!' then the questions, arguments and flames follow.
Stop insulting each other, or don't be surprised when your posts have disappeared.
I added the sentence "After this distribution process is over, there will be no further involvement by NCsoft." to the original post to avoid any possible mis-implies.
implication have nothing to do with facts phoenix... my point is it allows stupid ppl to assume something other than the truth... Why not say nothing at all?
its like saying
"after merges servers will have no mobs for 10min. then mobs will appear and start to agro players. sorry for any inconvienince this may cause."
u and i know this is normal. but stupid ppl think "holy **** this changes everything!!!' then the questions, arguments and flames follow.
im just trying to rid or forums of this.
WHAT!! mobs will appear and start to agro players!!! Even the non-agro mobs!! holy **** this changes everything!!!
Active wars are a joke.... You do not need wars to pvp and wars are actually carebear if you think about it.
Real men flag and go red :)
This is like trashtalking yourself dude... When have you EVER flagged? In fact, when we used to attack ur clan on tw's, all u did was hiding behind your clannies and letting them die
Stop insulting each other, or don't be surprised when your posts have disappeared.
I added the sentence "After this distribution process is over, there will be no further involvement by NCsoft." to the original post to avoid any possible mis-implies.
Stop insulting each other, or don't be surprised when your posts have disappeared.
I added the sentence "After this distribution process is over, there will be no further involvement by NCsoft." to the original post to avoid any possible mis-implies.
On that note, what exactly is going to end up being factored into the 'Activity' decision process? How many players are in a Clan? How active they are? Clan Level? Wars? Levels? Heros? Castle records? etc...
When you say Ownership status, does that mean any current Clan who does not have a Clan Hall already are immediately eliminated from the Clan Hall Consideration?
Minor Suggestion - Make there a minimum 'buy-in' to be considered for Clan Hall consideration, but make it a reasonable amount in respect to the changes of the game, considering the 2bil Max from before is not really a challenging amount for an active clan to accumulate, in other words, a Clan must put up 4, 5 or 6bil Adena to be entered into a pool of Clans considered for a Clan Hall. If they get the Clan Hall, NcSoft keeps it... if the Clan Doesn't, you return it. Should weed out a lot of the weaker candidates and make the process easier.
This is like trashtalking yourself dude... When have you EVER flagged? In fact, when we used to attack ur clan on tw's, all u did was hiding behind your clannies and letting them die
No clue who you are and I had over 2000 pvps before your toon was even created. I been playing 6 and half years so don't stress over what you seen in a year lol
No clue who you are and I had over 2000 pvps before your toon was even created. I been playing 6 and half years so don't stress over what you seen in a year lol
I got over 3k PvP's on a 5x Maestro ALT in about 3 hours. Ever since Clan Rep was introduced into the game, PvP counts are irrelevant, so do I get a Cookie too?
and that would be my point pix... current ownership at time of distribution means nothing lol
just means business as usual for whomever owns the hall.... so why speak of current ownership?
lololol
show u what i mean by implied....
so in other words its POSSIBLE that what they means is DURING the distribution process a clan may own multiple halls, or get them switched by a lottery system if another said clan picks that clan hall number...
or how about this one....
its possible the may use a musical chairs game to determine clan hall ownership DURING the distribution process...
this is why u need to take out the sentence about first lol the implications are endless lololol
Not a horrible idea, but not great either. I would hope that you take into account a clan's activity, average level, and also average pvps. Find the top ones, give them first pick, and go down the list. The fact that you already own one should mean literally nothing. If an active clan owns one, but there are 100 more active clans than them, they don't deserve one. If an inactive clan owns one, then they wouldn't get one either, so either way the fact that you own one or not is irrelevant.
heres the thing ppl should not complain cos when nc try to "help" it only gets worse.
excluding lvl 5 clans is pointless do u really think alt clans are only less than lvl 5 :-S
the lottery version we had last time was a farse, in part due to the issues over refunds - so whilst im sure ppl will have said its not fair, that was more to do with nc not giving clear explanations and the whole refund thing.
There will never be a way of distributing clan halls that someone wont consider unfair, unless ur gonna just stick names in hats.
u know clan halls have very few advantages now if u think about it - yes the rez but most clans have luck n a decent rezzer - most clans dont need them for buffs, id imagine the ports arent terribly relevant ?
has a ch just become like a pension or status symbol or is there a real benefit to them ?
u know clan halls have very few advantages now if u think about it - yes the rez but most clans have luck n a decent rezzer - most clans dont need them for buffs, id imagine the ports arent terribly relevant ?
has a ch just become like a pension or status symbol or is there a real benefit to them ?
Minor Suggestion - Make there a minimum 'buy-in' to be considered for Clan Hall consideration, but make it a reasonable amount in respect to the changes of the game, considering the 2bil Max from before is not really a challenging amount for an active clan to accumulate, in other words, a Clan must put up 4, 5 or 6bil Adena to be entered into a pool of Clans considered for a Clan Hall. If they get the Clan Hall, NcSoft keeps it... if the Clan Doesn't, you return it. Should weed out a lot of the weaker candidates and make the process easier.
Here's a better suggestion: of the clans you are considering, count the number of characters banned for third party program usage or RMT that are associated with that clan, and decrease their place on the list accordingly. ;)
Also, a bit more seriously, taking into account the age of a clan as well as the age of the characters in that clan (assuming it has good "activity" still of course, whatever that ends up being) might be an interesting way to narrow things down or break ties.
Here's a better suggestion: of the clans you are considering, count the number of characters banned for third party program usage or RMT that are associated with that clan, and decrease their place on the list accordingly.
That way Noba, FS, YR, Bregan, RDogs etc etc pretty much all powerhouse clans gonna be the first ones to be eliminated. Yeah I like it. +1.
I suggest to use the "highest unique bid wins" system. Works more or less like that:
1- Set the max bid to 1 bi.
2- A clan would only be able to bid for 1 hall.
3- Open bid for 5 days.
4- All clans that wanna compete for a hall make a start bid of any value from 1~1bi.
5- The person with the highest unique bid will receive a message saying he have the highest unique bid. If someone make the same bid it will not be unique anymore and another mail will be send notifying its not the highest unique bid anymore.
6- The clan with the highest unique bid wins.
Here's a better suggestion: of the clans you are considering, count the number of characters banned for third party program usage or RMT that are associated with that clan, and decrease their place on the list accordingly. ;)
Also, a bit more seriously, taking into account the age of a clan as well as the age of the characters in that clan (assuming it has good "activity" still of course, whatever that ends up being) might be an interesting way to narrow things down or break ties.
I would suggest to use the "highest unique bid wins" system. Works more or less like that:
1- Set the max bid to 1 bi.
2- A clan would only be able to bid for 1 hall.
3- Open bid for 5 days.
4- All clans that wanna compete for a hall make a start bid of any value from 1~1bi.
5- The person with the highest unique bid will receive a message saying he have the highest unique bid. If someone make the same bid it will not be unique anymore and another mail will be send notifying its not the highest unique bid anymore.
6- The clan with the highest unique bid wins.
bilion or biliard ?:)
let me laugh some on this idea : D
right after new server is up all cls will rush to manager and put 1bbbbbbbbbbbb and what gz 500 cls with "uniqe " bid :D or you want joke like with item broker ?
and from owning ch :
soe ch + we have where tor run if we pk 2 many neutrals =)
btw @Sace how chs will be divided ?? by current ownership like RS got The mithril chamber if NCsoft will pick us we will be given again mithril chamber ?
On that note, what exactly is going to end up being factored into the 'Activity' decision process? How many players are in a Clan? How active they are? Clan Level? Wars? Levels? Heros? Castle records? etc...
When you say Ownership status, does that mean any current Clan who does not have a Clan Hall already are immediately eliminated from the Clan Hall Consideration?
Minor Suggestion - Make there a minimum 'buy-in' to be considered for Clan Hall consideration, but make it a reasonable amount in respect to the changes of the game, considering the 2bil Max from before is not really a challenging amount for an active clan to accumulate, in other words, a Clan must put up 4, 5 or 6bil Adena to be entered into a pool of Clans considered for a Clan Hall. If they get the Clan Hall, NcSoft keeps it... if the Clan Doesn't, you return it. Should weed out a lot of the weaker candidates and make the process easier.
bilion or biliard ?:)
let me laugh some on this idea : D
right after new server is up all cls will rush to manager and put 1bbbbbbbbbbbb and what gz 500 cls with "uniqe " bid :D or you want joke like with item broker ?
and from owning ch :
soe ch + we have where tor run if we pk 2 many neutrals =)
btw @Sace how chs will be divided ?? by current ownership like RS got The mithril chamber if NCsoft will pick us we will be given again mithril chamber ?
PvP is so C3. Died when farming and programs ended up dominating skill. Any novice with a good program and bought adena for awesome gear can be a hero now. Some people play the game to be social and cooperative. Castle siege PvP is really the only remaining PvP that should count for anything.
How about you penalize any clans against whom you have in the past had numerous bans (for any reason including language).
How about you go to a siege field in the next cycle, then raise everyone's CP by 50,000 and then anyone who instantly auto-spams CP you ban and disqualify any clan with more than 3 members who do that.
How about you disqualify any clan who has held all territory wards for more than 5 cycles, since obviously they can just easily go take a siegable clan hall?
See - it works both ways, people.
I'm happy to hear they will be working out a system for this that takes numbers and activity into consideration. A hell of a lot more carebears play this game (and are far more likely to be legit) than those thump-ing their pvp chests.
Well, the truth is the higher-ups will decide, what to take into consideration. Of course with different things in it would be a different result. So there isn't an ideal way. Anything they choice, someone won't be pleased.
There isn't any democracy. They say what to do, we accept it or leave. There won't be any good if they let us to have a voice in something. (See server name choosing)
The best form of a state is dictatorship, but only with a good dictator. And power can make people go crazy.
This is like trashtalking yourself dude... When have you EVER flagged? In fact, when we used to attack ur clan on tw's, all u did was hiding behind your clannies and letting them die You made me LOL. riiiggghhhhtttt
We will post all of the information you will need about the distribution system in a few weeks.
Sace, thank you for sharing what information you had upfront. We understand you are in a difficult position and appreciate your balancing act!
When you say the information will be posted in a couple weeks, it seems the process wont be finalized until AFTER the new merged servers are up and going. If that is the case, ok, but we are all interested in understanding any key decisions we need to make now BEFORE the merger. I'll offer my clan status as an example:
1. We are an active, level 11 clan.
2. We have owned a Rune clan hall for years, since the start of our server. We won the clan hall through one of the earliest clan hall bids.
3. When Freya came out, since our server is dead, we decided to move our actual Rune clan hall to our alt clan, and we took Fortress of The Dead clan hall (a Rune battle hall). It is better then a Rune clan hall in every way...same buffs, same 50% rez, same ports, etc but it offers crp every 2 weeks, items like Top Grade life stones, new recs for hats, etc.
We knew the server merger was coming, there was less then 1 month for the merge, and wanted to see first hand these changes and take advantage of them in the time we had left so....we sold our Rune clan hall to our own alt clan and took FoTD clan hall.
My question is...did we screw ourselves by taking this action? If so, we can lose the battle clan hall next week then re-buy our old clan hall. We would lose 200 mill in the process but it's well worth it to take that action.
Again, my focus of asking here is....do you take into account the battle clan halls? Or only the "normal" clan halls. Also it seems you will "look at" the current servers and make a report of who has which clan halls. When will that "look" happen? Did it happen a few weeks ago? Today? Or will it happen after the servers are taken down on October 5th?
How about you go to a siege field in the next cycle, then raise everyone's CP by 50,000 and then anyone who instantly auto-spams CP you ban.
They have been doing this on teon to the 3 biggest clans for the past month, unequipping weapons, taking off cp etc et There are literally 0 bots left on teon right now. And yet ppl are still complaining about them. I dont know how it is on the other servers right now, but I cant imagine its much different.
How about you disqualify any clan who has held all territory wards for more than 5 cycles, since obviously they can just easily go take a siegable clan hall?
Disqualifying any clan that has held wards for more than 5 cycles, because they can just take a siegable clanhall is a horrible idea and I dont know why you would even suggest that. Normal town clanhalls are very useful for sieges etc. So id say let the smaller clans take the siegable clanhalls.
I'm happy to hear they will be working out a system for this that takes numbers and activity into consideration. A hell of a lot more carebears play this game (and are far more likely to be legit) than those thump-ing their pvp chests.
Truth.
I highly doubt that. My clan + our biggest enemy already consist out of 400 people. Generally sieges/tw are 150vs150, the biggest carebear clans there are, are what? 50 ppl that play 4 hours a week? While the ''pvpers'' generally play 4+hours a day.
----
I cant believe the amount of incredible crybabies on these forums, this is finally a good idea from ncsoft and yet all people do is complain. I dont hear much complaining from all the ppl in the big clans, its just a bunch of 7x crying like always.
I cant believe the amount of incredible crybabies on these forums, this is finally a good idea from ncsoft and yet all people do is complain.
+1 to Julie
What people don't understand is NC Soft's goal here is clearly not to see various clans with 15 members get their first clan hall. The reason for the mergers was clearly stated. Lineage2 as a game is DESIGNED for servers with 3k+ players. Antharas/Valakas can't be killed on the current servers because there are not enough players. There isn't a lot of pvp over xp spots because there are not enough players. And the single top clan on each server often owns 4+ castles on their various alt clans because they just run around from castle to castle killing everyone.
The game is designed for LARGE clans of 100+ PLAYERS (not 100 characters, but real people). This merger will cause many of the small clans to disappear and merge together into larger clans to give them the ability to do their own Freya/Tiat/Frint cc's, to take a castle, to use one of the limited numbers of clan halls, etc.
COMPETITION is what makes L2 great. The CMs and GMs try NOT to interfere in the game by taking a "hands off" approach whenever possible. In the rare circumstance of the server merge, they realize that THEY have disrupted the process, and they are taking steps to minimize the damage.
Let's stop the QQ, perhaps offer some helpful suggestions, try not to be harsh with the criticisms, and be patient.
I hope top clans will not get CH in Gludio.
But as I understand first "few weeks" that can mean "couple month". So all clans will be forced to fight for pvp-type CHs. Exept HS CH but it is a random game (sometimes I take this CH with several 4x-5x alts from big clans).
Thanks, this is a nice thing. A lot less stress for us now.
Well, besides not knowing exactly when you are gonna actually give the clan halls. (Soooooooonnnnnn)
I cant believe the amount of incredible crybabies on these forums, this is finally a good idea from ncsoft and yet all people do is complain. I dont hear much complaining from all the ppl in the big clans, its just a bunch of 7x crying like always.
There are literally 0 bots left on teon right now. And yet ppl are still complaining about them.
Not true. I never complained about bots. I just simply kill them for the hunting spot. (But it's true, that lately I meet less of them. Maybe because I moved from the brandet to the apostate)
i wanted to change our current clan hall :(
I think you probably won't get the same c.hall, that you had before.
All this hard work, farming forts day and night for nothing... Legits are screwed again, of course bots have more ppl in the clan, they make up 90% of the servers population. Of course that, even before we had a very small chance because of the automated bidders, but there was one, now it is all gone, all our work is for nothing, bots win again... Eversince i started playing in official i dreamt of a ch for a legit clan. There was no hope then, there isnt any now, no matter how hard will be working and how much will save, never ever will have enough money to afford to buy from bots, that is if they decide to sell anyway their dead clan halls with banned CL which is impossible to sell anyway. What a non-surprise... NCsoft was supposed to stay out of the game, not to change rules when everybody already made plans and lost countless nights to gather ke, sold gear and everything to hope to make the money. Thanks a lot, I was wondering if something like this will happen, it was impossible to let the bots lose their precious CH...
M
P.S.
Perhaps at least rise the rent to 20 mil a week or so, something every clan can afford and dead clans will eventually run out of money... But even so the bots will put money in cwh to keep it form getting used by others.
P.S. 2 Wouldnt have been more fair to let the bid go as high as ppl were interested to pay ? I could have still dream to a Dion CH, for instance, but no, give them all to bots, screw the legits that wont have even forts, battle ch, no places to exp, kill us all, nicely done...
All this hard work, farming forts day and night for nothing... Legits are screwed again, of course bots have more ppl in the clan, they make up 90% of the servers population. Of course that, even before we had a very small chance because of the automated bidders, but there was one, now it is all gone, all our work is for nothing, bots win again... Eversince i started playing in official i dreamt of a ch for a legit clan. There was no hope then, there isnt any now, no matter how hard will be working and how much will save, never ever will have enough money to afford to buy from bots, that is if they decide to sell anyway their dead clan halls with banned CL which is impossible to sell anyway. What a non-surprise... NCsoft was supposed to stay out of the game, not to change rules when everybody already made plans and lost countless nights to gather ke, sold gear and everything to hope to make the money. Thanks a lot, I was wondering if something like this will happen, it was impossible to let the bots lose their precious CH...
M
P.S.
Perhaps at least rise the rent to 20 mil a week or so, something every clan can afford and dead clans will eventually run out of money... But even so the bots will put money in cwh to keep it form getting used by others.
P.S. 2 Wouldnt have been more fair to let the bid go as high as ppl were interested to pay ? I could have still dream to a Dion CH, for instance, but no, give them all to bots, screw the legits that wont have even forts, battle ch, no places to exp, kill us all, nicely done...
NCsoft trying to be fair so all active ppl gets ch.
bilion or biliard ?:)
let me laugh some on this idea : D
right after new server is up all cls will rush to manager and put 1bbbbbbbbbbbb and what gz 500 cls with "uniqe " bid :D or you want joke like with item broker ?
and from owning ch :
soe ch + we have where tor run if we pk 2 many neutrals =)
btw @Sace how chs will be divided ?? by current ownership like RS got The mithril chamber if NCsoft will pick us we will be given again mithril chamber ?
In your example it would be enough to bid *1* adena to win a highest *unique* bid auction.
It seems, it's true, what they say, that X consist of brainless people ;)
NCsoft trying to be fair so all active ppl gets ch.
I wish they would get into consideration other criteria than "active" 24/7. If it was so that they enforce the rules you would have not been here and now it is possible that they ban the bots, but they wont do it.
Besides, my problem is not only botting but changing game rules on a 2 weeks notice. If I knew they will give CH to you I would have not bothered to sell my gear and farm hard. That is the way they treat their customers.
About ending up alone, after the next merger, there will be only one server. It will not be possible to hope for any merger and PvP because you finally managed to kill all servers.
M
No matter which will be the method, there is absolutely no doubt the legits wont have any chance, I am sure not even those that got CH at creation of the server and still have it, level 9 clans etc, not to mention those that came later running from last merger and never had a chance.
M
At the end, big, active clans will get what they want. And it's good. Why should CH get a clan of 20 ppl who play 2h/week then clan of 200ppl who are active and are "power of server"?
The fact is most likely that any alt clan or dead clan holding a CH will lose it and be refunded, the more active clans will keep their clan halls or take over ones of a same grade in the same area. Clans with more people logging on daily get clan halls, fair is fair.
I really really don't get some people. Sace and co seem to know what they're doing and they're doing well at the moment. What's your problem? Because your 10 member clan can't ebay 20bil to buy a clan hall from farmers after merge and actual active clans will get them instead without a single player abusing the system for profit?
Edit: Another nice thing would be to see similar ranking clans owning CHs in the same towns, PVP mayhem! :D You could always send messages to the clan leaders of clans who could move towns and see if they agree first!
At the end, big, active clans will get what they want, no matter if they are legit ot not. And it's good. Why should CH get a clan of 20 ppl who play 2h/week then clan of 200ppl who are active and are "power of server"?
But problem is not in : do big clans should have CH?
Problem is : do we let people run&buy all possible CH and re-sell them for bilions^2 to alt clans of big clans?
Currently on Teon we have 6-7 major clans and 15 - 20 active neutral clans.
If you take Luna/Franz top clans has similar activity like 'neutrals' from Teon.
OK they got mostly 10+ clan but real activity is nothing compare to top Teon clans.
In theory all those active clans (Teon/Luna/Franz) should be able to fit in all CH. (ok some of them got Gludin ... ).
But if you let scenarion - fastest got CH's, it turns out that 60-70% will be bought to re-sell and end up in arms of some reach top alt clan.
That can be solved.
I'm not sure what method should be chosen, but I'm happy that any steps were considered.
I think that this sounds like a good idea.The clan halls was the main concern of every top clan of the servers but I also think that the NC develpoment should give an answer about what's gonna happen with the Clan Halls that need siege war to overtaken.
Let's kick farmers' ***** once and for good!
Edit: Another nice thing would be to see similar ranking clans owning CHs in the same towns, PVP mayhem! :D You could always send messages to the clan leaders of clans who could move towns and see if they agree first!
+1
Ha! Nice Idea :)
All who posses same CH at other server at one day do mass PvP to get it.
To make it more fun all fights (for other CH) should be done same moment in various places :)
No help from allies/friendly clans, no borrowed parties just pure power of clan.
We will post all of the information you will need about the distribution system in a few weeks. [...]
I know that you will have lots of questions and suggestions about the process. We will release complete details in a few weeks. Please be patient and rest assured that this method will be fair.
At the end, big, active clans will get what they want, no matter if they are legit ot not. And it's good.If legit; then yeah it's good
If not, then; NO it's definitely not good, they shouldn't be there in the first place.
As we have developed our plan for the server merge, one of our concerns has been the fair distribution of Clan Halls on the new servers.
Yeah, yeah, c'mon, c'mon... NCsoft talking about "fairness". (Something must have died somewhere out there in the forests, I guess.)
I don't want to know the details of your wonderful future plans, for I demand only one thing:
The only kind of "reimbursement" I am asking for is the clan hall in Rune that my clan lost upon the previous merge (after which the remaining clan members began to quit the game en masse, since it took us forever to raise the funds to get that clan hall, and we could not stand that sort of blatant scam performed by NCsoft itself).
Why are ppl posting o.O
I'm personally concerned about... if I transfer my CH back from my lvl 3 alt clan to my lvl 7 alt clan, will I have a chance to keep it after the merge :rolleyes:
Yeah, yeah, c'mon, c'mon... NCsoft talking about "fairness". (Something must have died somewhere out there in the forests, I guess.)
I don't want to know the details of your wonderful future plans, for I demand only one thing:
The only kind of "reimbursement" I am asking for is the clan hall in Rune that my clan lost upon the previous merge (after which the remaining clan members began to quit the game en masse, since it took us forever to raise the funds to get that clan hall, and we could not stand that sort of blatant scam performed by NCsoft itself).
Thanks in advance.
Sorry Aconyte, I dont think your 1 man clan will get one.
And that clan really mass quit game coz of no clan hall? I find that laughable.
And that clan really mass quit game coz of no clan hall?
Not really.
They quitted the game since NCsoft has been mistreating the legit part of players community since the beginning.
They quitted because NCsoft never really tried to get rid of all the farmers, ebayers, powerlevelers, character buyers, botters, and other 3rd party program users.
Since the cheaters prevailed, only a few people in the clan bothered to continue their Sisyphean labor in tenuous hope that they'd catch up with the rest eventually (yet we still managed to keep 1-2 castles right before the merge/demise of Gustin).
The loss of the clan hall was just the last straw that added insult to injury.
Ppl may wonder why am I so angry before the details have been announced ?
Here is why:
1. <b>It is a matter of principles</b>. NCSoft should NOT intervene in the game to help no matter who against no matter who, if the bidding rules are these, they should EITHER change bidding rules LONG before something like this merger OR leave them as they are.
2. <b>It is a matter of timing</b>. They said they will give us a month notice on how the merge will go. Less than 2 weeks before the merger, after I sold my gear at discounted price to make sure I manage the amount requested, we find out that our efforts are in vain and the bots will win once again because the rules have changed.
3. <b>It is a matter of implementation</b>. No matter what the criteria regarding clan online and membership will be used, full legit clans stand no chance because bots are in the big majority and high level legits play with them. Therefore we wont be able to get a clan hall, but that could have been different and here it is how:
A- <b>You say you want to distribute fairly so alt clans wont occupy clan halls for nothing or to resell for profit.</b> Fair enough, completely agreed if that is the reason, but the implementation is not hinting in that direction. You can achieve that VERY easy by returning to auction clans taken by those ppl. Say, a clan that is inactive in last month or only has some alts, level 5 or below, will lose the CH it got and those will be put to auction again. Dont distribute to whom you think is worth it, but ban from it the unworthy ppl, because that is the declared aim, you say you want to prevent those from getting CHs, then why you dont do just that, prevent them from holding what they took just for profit or to prevent others form using ? That is the most fair solution and they know it. If a clan is so active and has so many ppl online, then it will be very easy for the super skilled CL to bid in time, not to mention that those are really bots and will bid automatically anyway.
B-<b>If you intervene now you should continue to do it</b> and free the CH held by dead clans (banned leader, merged clans, etc) set a minimal treshold under which the CH will be freed by a GM, for instance, less than 20 different ppl logged last month or so. Claiming that you want fairness but only for initial distribution is just BS. You are either fair all the time or you leave the game take it's unfair course.
As a legit I know how unfair it is, but GM intervention to make it even more unfair for us, that is something so awful that can make me indifferent to GM threats and continue to speak out. Instead of a sad life and an awful living (in the game, hehe), better dead (in the game also :P ).
I hope it is clear now why i deeply resent this move and i find it shamefully unfair, even for NCsoft GMs.
M
I'm personally concerned about... if I transfer my CH back from my lvl 3 alt clan to my lvl 7 alt clan, will I have a chance to keep it after the merge :rolleyes:
I think it is the posts like this that light fires. Maybe you can sit on the steps outside your old clan hall......
NCSoft should think about adding some kind of element to the Clans Halls to keep active clans in them and not ones that died off or merged and left to an alt clan.
Maybe tie the clan hall you own into the territory wars, Clans halls sign for the territory it is in maybe and have to complete some kind of activity during the TW each month or Clan hall gets auctioned and proceeds go back to the clan that owned it.
Something to keep the clan halls active...just buying one and getting to hold it indefintely sucks.
Ppl may wonder why am I so angry before the details have been announced ?
Here is why:
1. It is a matter of principles. NCSoft should NOT intervene in the game to help no matter who against no matter who, if the bidding rules are these, they should EITHER change bidding rules LONG before something like this merger OR leave them as they are.
2. It is a matter of timing. They said they will give us a month notice on how the merge will go. Less than 2 weeks before the merger, after I sold my gear at discounted price to make sure I manage the amount requested, we find out that our efforts are in vain and the bots will win once again because the rules have changed.
3. It is a matter of implementation. No matter what the criteria regarding clan online and membership will be used, full legit clans stand no chance because bots are in the big majority and high level legits play with them. Therefore we wont be able to get a clan hall, but that could have been different and here it is how:
A- You say you want to distribute fairly so alt clans wont occupy clan halls for nothing or to resell for profit. Fair enough, completely agreed if that is the reason, but the implementation is not hinting in that direction. You can achieve that VERY easy by returning to auction clans taken by those ppl. Say, a clan that is inactive in last month or only has some alts, level 5 or below, will lose the CH it got and those will be put to auction again. That is the most fair solution and they know it. If a clan is so active and has so many ppl online, then it will be very easy for the super skilled CL to bid in time, not to mention that those are really bots and will bid automatically anyway.
B-If you intervene now you should continue to do it and free the CH held by dead clans (banned leader, merged clans, etc) set a minimal treshold under which the CH will be freed by a GM, for instance, less than 20 different ppl logged last month or so. Claiming that you want fairness but only for initial distribution is just BS. You are either fair or you leave the game take it's unfair course.
As a legit I know how unfair it is, but GM intervention to make it even more unfair for us, that is something so awful that can make me indifferent to GM threats and continue to speak out. Instead of a sad life and an awful living (in the game, hehe), better dead (in the game also :P ).
I hope it is clear now why i deeply resent this move and i find it shamefully unfair, even for NCsoft GMs.
M
what? 1st off, the chances of you getting a ch inn a 1st come 1st server auction method is slim to none.. and most "bots" connect directly through IP's and dont evn go through the login server.. thus they wold giet in faster than you anyways..
2nd: lvl 9 clans.. if that is what u have.. shouldnt have a ch at all. if youre a lvl 9 clan you should delete it and yourself for being absolutely worthless.. lvl9 clans were so c6.
3rd: you should be thanking ncsoft.. because players like myself and a few others were lining up at the chance to buy a few ch's and turn a big profit.. so instead of resenting it from ncsoft.. u should thank them..
Im pretty sure about whats going to happen, there can be only a few options especially when they say that its going to be fair.
I think they will distribute clanhalls to clans with most active members and activity. Top activity and active clans will get the A grade halls and as the list goes down the Location and grade goes down..
It seems relatively most fair thing to do and yes, not everybody wins. I would agree with such a distribution.
Although MaoMao whines, moans and cries a lot, he is right on a couple of things.
As a clan leader, what happens with CHs is of a big concern. Should I have my whole clan working to get the money?? should we be working on getting a higher clan lvl?? what is going to make the difference??? all those questions are still unanswered and we are 10 days away.......
My clan is fairly new, therefore it is still low level because we have had other priorities...... Nevertheless if you look at phoenix boards you can see that my clan is one of the top 5 / top 10 clans in the whole server...... would that count as activity?? I don't know.. on paper my clan is a lame lvl 7 clan but on a day to day, we have held castles more than once, and we have declared wars with 80% of the server......
I was going to do the same thing that MaoMao did and start selling clans gear, and stuff like that but I heard rumors of a different thing and I held off. I have stoped growing though cause instead of distributing gear I kept the money just in case... Either way we have been in the dark and do not know exactly what to do. They say they will announce and they announce something very general and vague...... It really kind of sucks the way they are handling this, the previous updates, the updates that we dont yet have, and everything else for that matter.
Im pretty sure about whats going to happen, there can be only a few options especially when they say that its going to be fair.
I think they will distribute clanhalls to clans with most active members and activity. Top activity and active clans will get the A grade halls and as the list goes down the Location and grade goes down..
It seems relatively most fair thing to do and yes, not everybody wins. I would agree with such a distribution.
What Mao says is that if that is the case, bot clans with people online 24/7 and with multiple adena farming accounts will have the most activity (as far as time online goes).
We will release complete details in a few weeks. Please be patient and rest assured that this method will be fair.
Did everybody miss this point that they are going to release the details in a few weeks (Not implement their plan, just give you the details of the plan). As of this post, there are only 11 days left before the server merge. The word few implies a number of 3 or more. So there is going to be a least a week + after the merge until they announce just the DETAILS of how the new system is going to work.
Be ready for fort battle after fort battle is all I got to say.
Did everybody miss this point that they are going to release the details in a few weeks (Not implement their plan, just give you the details of the plan). As of this post, there are only 11 days left before the server merge. The word few implies a number of 3 or more. So there is going to be a least a week + after the merge until they announce just the DETAILS of how the new system is going to work.
Be ready for fort battle after fort battle is all I got to say.
You missed the point. As long as they didnt announce anything about CH 1 month before the merger it is IMPLIED nothing will change. Saying NOW that things will change AFTER we prepared for the event is the problem.
About level 9 clan, legits can seldom get castles, bots locked down all Franz castles, they all belong to same clan (on alt clans, of course).
@ WfvArthiose
About me having no chance to get a ch in bidding, you are wrong. Unlike you, I have brains and I saw that I would outrun you from the way you talk about the bidding and logging in process. Due to the fact that many bots in game are bots in brains too i would have had still a slim chance. Besides, my clan is 4 months old.
M
Noone will have clan halls when merges hits. They are locking them and will be releasing info on how to obtain one later.
Two very different dates. They can still give you info about clan halls one month prior to distribution, regardless of when the merge is.
or they can just tell you 1 day before merges how it is going to happen and make it happen right away.... I mean... lets face it, they have done stuff like that in the past.
Ppl may wonder why am I so angry before the details have been announced ?
Here is why:
1. <b>It is a matter of principles</b>. NCSoft should NOT intervene in the game to help no matter who against no matter who, if the bidding rules are these, they should EITHER change bidding rules LONG before something like this merger OR leave them as they are.
2. <b>It is a matter of timing</b>. They said they will give us a month notice on how the merge will go. Less than 2 weeks before the merger, after I sold my gear at discounted price to make sure I manage the amount requested, we find out that our efforts are in vain and the bots will win once again because the rules have changed.
3. <b>It is a matter of implementation</b>. No matter what the criteria regarding clan online and membership will be used, full legit clans stand no chance because bots are in the big majority and high level legits play with them. Therefore we wont be able to get a clan hall, but that could have been different and here it is how:
A- <b>You say you want to distribute fairly so alt clans wont occupy clan halls for nothing or to resell for profit.</b> Fair enough, completely agreed if that is the reason, but the implementation is not hinting in that direction. You can achieve that VERY easy by returning to auction clans taken by those ppl. Say, a clan that is inactive in last month or only has some alts, level 5 or below, will lose the CH it got and those will be put to auction again. Dont distribute to whom you think is worth it, but ban from it the unworthy ppl, because that is the declared aim, you say you want to prevent those from getting CHs, then why you dont do just that, prevent them from holding what they took just for profit or to prevent others form using ? That is the most fair solution and they know it. If a clan is so active and has so many ppl online, then it will be very easy for the super skilled CL to bid in time, not to mention that those are really bots and will bid automatically anyway.
B-<b>If you intervene now you should continue to do it</b> and free the CH held by dead clans (banned leader, merged clans, etc) set a minimal treshold under which the CH will be freed by a GM, for instance, less than 20 different ppl logged last month or so. Claiming that you want fairness but only for initial distribution is just BS. You are either fair all the time or you leave the game take it's unfair course.
As a legit I know how unfair it is, but GM intervention to make it even more unfair for us, that is something so awful that can make me indifferent to GM threats and continue to speak out. Instead of a sad life and an awful living (in the game, hehe), better dead (in the game also :P ).
I hope it is clear now why i deeply resent this move and i find it shamefully unfair, even for NCsoft GMs.
M
+1 to this if they arent going to follow what they say, they shouldnt say anything
Noone will have clan halls when merges hits. They are locking them and will be releasing info on how to obtain one later.
Two very different dates. They can still give you info about clan halls one month prior to distribution, regardless of when the merge is.
You are wrong also. CH bidding IS part of the merger. It was last merger, they said nothing, this means it remains the same. I play for 5 years and i know how it was then, besides the threads are still there.
As such, we asumed will be the same and we prepared as soon as we had the merger date. Sold gear and stuff to have the money. Now they say legits wont be allowed to take part and this is a shame because nobody will reimburse us for the sold gear at discounted prices.
Perhaps for most bots out there 2 bn is nothing and I am sure that is a fact, however i lost everything with the former clan level 9 i made when they decided to take it over and allow botting.
In less than 4 months it is **** hard to make 4 bn starting from nothing, even tho friends helped. We needed 4 bn because wanted to try to bid on 2 CH in case something goes wrong and I lose power, for example, or internet connection just then, so we were preparing alt clan too.
It was a huge effort for a new and small fully legit clan. All for nothing, unfortunatelly, tho now I can buy many ke and keep them for after merger for at least 30% profit if not 100%.
M
You are wrong also. CH bidding IS part of the merger. It was last merger, they said nothing, this means it remains the same. I play for 5 years and i know how it was then, besides the threads are still there.
As such, we asumed will be the same and we prepared as soon as we had the merger date. Sold gear and stuff to have the money. Now they say legits wont be allowed to take part and this is a shame because nobody will reimburse us for the sold gear at discounted prices.
Perhaps for most bots out there 2 bn is nothing and I am sure that is a fact, however i lost everything with the former clan level 9 i made when they decided to take it over and allow botting.
In less than 4 months it is **** hard to make 4 bn starting from nothing, even tho friends helped. We needed 4 bn because wanted to try to bid on 2 CH in case something goes wrong and I lose power, for example, or internet connection just then, so we were preparing alt clan too.
It was a huge effort for a new and small fully legit clan. All for nothing, unfortunatelly, tho now I can buy many ke and keep them for after merger for at least 30% profit if not 100%.
M
Howmany people does your clan have? I mean players, not toons/alts.
So u give benefits to bigger clans and u are going to destroy smaller clans..that is totally unfair! In that way u make smaller clan members to join begger clans,u just don't give options to them.Have u ever consider if they really want to do that? Bigger clans=more farmers ,bots and adena buyers-sellers...U don't have an equal plan for all clans big or small..maybe take a minute to think of this..
My question is...did we screw ourselves by taking this action? If so, we can lose the battle clan hall next week then re-buy our old clan hall. We would lose 200 mill in the process but it's well worth it to take that action.
From what it sounds.. yes you did.. you can still fight for the FOD one...
1.) increase max bid to 5b or 10b. every real clan can afford that, also legits. (100ppl giving 100m = 10b, thats not hard if u belong to a real clan)
2.) let only lvl 10/11 clans bid for top grade halls (goddard, rune, aden)
3.) let lower lvl clans only bid on the non-top-grade halls, minimum lvl for that halls should be lvl 7
4.) forbid to resell the clanhall for at least 12 months. if a clanwh runs out of money make a server wide system message about it, that a clanhall will be available in 1 hour (or sumthing like that)
that way it should work.
i have to agree with some ppl here...its a bit short before the merge u announce the changes. i know at least 1 CL who is already naked just to try to get enough money to bid on a hall lol. (no its not me^^)
still, i dont like the idea at all. why NC interfere in the market? next time u start to give out free animal bones cause the dorfs in giran sell it overpriced? i cant help it, but it sound VERY communistic to me, that a handfull of ppl (who admit that they dont play the game since long time) will decide who is worth to get a clanhall and who not. dont change the CH system and only monitor on the re-sell thingy, so no1 can sell a clanhall for RL currency.
Although MaoMao whines, moans and cries a lot, he is right on a couple of things.
As a clan leader, what happens with CHs is of a big concern. Should I have my whole clan working to get the money?? should we be working on getting a higher clan lvl?? what is going to make the difference??? all those questions are still unanswered and we are 10 days away.......
My clan is fairly new, therefore it is still low level because we have had other priorities...... Nevertheless if you look at phoenix boards you can see that my clan is one of the top 5 / top 10 clans in the whole server...... would that count as activity?? I don't know.. on paper my clan is a lame lvl 7 clan but on a day to day, we have held castles more than once, and we have declared wars with 80% of the server......
I was going to do the same thing that MaoMao did and start selling clans gear, and stuff like that but I heard rumors of a different thing and I held off. I have stoped growing though cause instead of distributing gear I kept the money just in case... Either way we have been in the dark and do not know exactly what to do. They say they will announce and they announce something very general and vague...... It really kind of sucks the way they are handling this, the previous updates, the updates that we dont yet have, and everything else for that matter.
Have to say I agree... which is saying a lot since I don't particularly like EO or Tagheuer.
Ppl may wonder why am I so angry before the details have been announced ?
Here is why:
1. It is a matter of principles. NCSoft should NOT intervene in the game to help no matter who against no matter who, if the bidding rules are these, they should EITHER change bidding rules LONG before something like this merger OR leave them as they are.
2. It is a matter of timing. They said they will give us a month notice on how the merge will go. Less than 2 weeks before the merger, after I sold my gear at discounted price to make sure I manage the amount requested, we find out that our efforts are in vain and the bots will win once again because the rules have changed.
3. It is a matter of implementation. No matter what the criteria regarding clan online and membership will be used, full legit clans stand no chance because bots are in the big majority and high level legits play with them. Therefore we wont be able to get a clan hall, but that could have been different and here it is how:
A- You say you want to distribute fairly so alt clans wont occupy clan halls for nothing or to resell for profit. Fair enough, completely agreed if that is the reason, but the implementation is not hinting in that direction. You can achieve that VERY easy by returning to auction clans taken by those ppl. Say, a clan that is inactive in last month or only has some alts, level 5 or below, will lose the CH it got and those will be put to auction again. Dont distribute to whom you think is worth it, but ban from it the unworthy ppl, because that is the declared aim, you say you want to prevent those from getting CHs, then why you dont do just that, prevent them from holding what they took just for profit or to prevent others form using ? That is the most fair solution and they know it. If a clan is so active and has so many ppl online, then it will be very easy for the super skilled CL to bid in time, not to mention that those are really bots and will bid automatically anyway.
B-If you intervene now you should continue to do it and free the CH held by dead clans (banned leader, merged clans, etc) set a minimal treshold under which the CH will be freed by a GM, for instance, less than 20 different ppl logged last month or so. Claiming that you want fairness but only for initial distribution is just BS. You are either fair all the time or you leave the game take it's unfair course.
As a legit I know how unfair it is, but GM intervention to make it even more unfair for us, that is something so awful that can make me indifferent to GM threats and continue to speak out. Instead of a sad life and an awful living (in the game, hehe), better dead (in the game also :P ).
I hope it is clear now why i deeply resent this move and i find it shamefully unfair, even for NCsoft GMs.
M
Let me break this down for you. If they had done it the traditional way then you weren't getting **** unless you had a script written and auto-relog enabled. This intervention at least opened the possibility that large active clans will have a CH.
Let me break this down for you. If they had done it the traditional way then you weren't getting **** unless you had a script written and auto-relog enabled. This intervention at least opened the possibility that large active clans will have a CH.
bs...last merge i got 2 halls without using any cheats.
So u give benefits to bigger clans and u are going to destroy smaller clans..that is totally unfair! In that way u make smaller clan members to join begger clans,u just don't give options to them.Have u ever consider if they really want to do that? Bigger clans=more farmers ,bots and adena buyers-sellers...U don't have an equal plan for all clans big or small..maybe take a minute to think of this..
Why should they give benefits to smaller clans if big clans writes history?
Sooo... Is anyone else as excited as me about the fact that there will be No Clan Halls for a few weeks, and all the Forts/Contested Clan Halls will be massive PvP zones for the first few weeks of the mergers?
bs...last merge i got 2 halls without using any cheats.
That is the one thing I have never understood. Why did you take 2 of them? Did you sell the 2nd one or did you keep it on your alt clan? Did you sell the second one for more than you paid for it?
The greed of certain people is why NC is doing this so that only a handful of clans get all the clan halls and then charge out the nose whe they resell the halls they dont want.
So u give benefits to bigger clans and u are going to destroy smaller clans..that is totally unfair! In that way u make smaller clan members to join begger clans,u just don't give options to them.Have u ever consider if they really want to do that? Bigger clans=more farmers ,bots and adena buyers-sellers...U don't have an equal plan for all clans big or small..maybe take a minute to think of this..
So instead they should give 20 man clans a clanhall and not the 200 man clans. Or else its unfair to the smaller clans. Yep you make alot of sense.
That is the one thing I have never understood. Why did you take 2 of them? Did you sell the 2nd one or did you keep it on your alt clan? Did you sell the second one for more than you paid for it?
Eat is an uber-capitalist. He was asking many multiple billions more than he paid for it. And under the system that existed he was 100% in his right to do it and good for him!!
If NCSoft believes their player base is more fairly served in another model, then so be it. It's their choice and just like with every event and decision that is made, some people are happy and some QQ. And life goes on regardless.
Sooo... Is anyone else as excited as me about the fact that there will be No Clan Halls for a few weeks, and all the Forts/Contested Clan Halls will be massive PvP zones for the first few weeks of the mergers?
And no manor, and no mammons... :rolleyes:
People,understand that bidding when the highest bid is determined his totally unfair.The faster boter,the faster l2ranger user will bid first,so stop accusing NCsoft about this decision.I find it totally right and I support it.I just wait further announcement about Clan Halls with siege war.For all the rest,keep on crying and moaning.
Sooo... Is anyone else as excited as me about the fact that there will be No Clan Halls for a few weeks, and all the Forts/Contested Clan Halls will be massive PvP zones for the first few weeks of the mergers?
yeah that is gonna be a lot of fun...!!! :D
and withouth the 50% xp recovery a lot of the "carebear" clans might decide to accept wars....
also pking somoene will be twice as rewarding.......
although it will probably lead on to a lot of people staying dead waiting for a bishop rez for a looong time....
That is the one thing I have never understood. Why did you take 2 of them? Did you sell the 2nd one or did you keep it on your alt clan? Did you sell the second one for more than you paid for it?
The greed of certain people is why NC is doing this so that only a handful of clans get all the clan halls and then charge out the nose whe they resell the halls they dont want.
i bid with main clan for 1 aden hall, a clanie bid with alt clan on a rune hall. higher chances to get at least 1 when u bid on 2. we got both, so i collect offers for 1 week and sold the rune one. i didnt keep it with alt clan. the clan that got it had the highest bid with only IG items. that clan was and still is way bigger than my clan and the adena/epics they paid wasnt a big deal for them. but it was really nice for my clanies, who all donated what they had to be able to bid on the hall. imo thats a win-win-situation. we in fact paid nothing for aden + still had some extra adena + epics which probably helped MY clanies more than if the other clan would have kept it in their clanwh. and they got a clanhall.
some months ago i had the luck to get a schuttgard hall which was in auction but no1 else noticed it, i paid 350m for it and resold it as well. i sold it again for more than the max bid, again it went to a clan who didnt have one before and who were really happy to get one. again a win-win-situation.
i know that some cheaters here laugh about me, cause i could have gotten way more out of that. but i sold it for ig stuff only.
thats called ig-capitalism. i had luck and made profit out of it. its same with oe stuff or anything.
if they keep the old system fine for me, if its a new system fine for me, if i dont get a clanhall cause NC thinks my clan isnt active and good enough to deserve one, and i see the halls in hands of great clans who really deserve it, fine for me. but we all know its not the real "active" clans, who will win the "activity" ranking in the end, its the opposite side. sad but true!
Sace: Will clans who dont currently have a ch have a fair and reasonable chance of get one? Once a clan owns it they will charge billions of adenas to take the ch (outside of the bidding system) which they can scam and keep the money anyway, or ebayers and/or botters can afford to buy
The money issue 10 billion is easy to raise? I like some of the drugs people are taking.
Not even some of the top pvp clans have 100 active members. Not everyone in clan has a spare 100 mil laying around either.
About the size of the clan. I am more concerned about alts and buff slaves being counted as actual players in these clans cause as we all know many people have 2 - 3 4 or more accounts.
Now will it be actually ip logins or just amount of active toons if that is the case ill start 9 boxing lol.
And lastly I say postpone mergers at least another month... It is clear that your rushing this and your far away from working out exactly how it will work.
And for the mergers are we at least getting our money we paid for the clan halls refunded or is that 2 billion lost forever?
And lastly I say postpone mergers at least another month... It is clear that your rushing this and your far away from working out exactly how it will work.
Absolutely so disorganized and rushed its not even funny.
1.) increase max bid to 5b or 10b. every real clan can afford that, also legits. (100ppl giving 100m = 10b, thats not hard if u belong to a real clan)
2.) let only lvl 10/11 clans bid for top grade halls (goddard, rune, aden)
3.) let lower lvl clans only bid on the non-top-grade halls, minimum lvl for that halls should be lvl 7
4.) forbid to resell the clanhall for at least 12 months. if a clanwh runs out of money make a server wide system message about it, that a clanhall will be available in 1 hour (or sumthing like that)
that way it should work.
i have to agree with some ppl here...its a bit short before the merge u announce the changes. i know at least 1 CL who is already naked just to try to get enough money to bid on a hall lol. (no its not me^^)
still, i dont like the idea at all. why NC interfere in the market? next time u start to give out free animal bones cause the dorfs in giran sell it overpriced? i cant help it, but it sound VERY communistic to me, that a handfull of ppl (who admit that they dont play the game since long time) will decide who is worth to get a clanhall and who not. dont change the CH system and only monitor on the re-sell thingy, so no1 can sell a clanhall for RL currency.
my 2 cents
10 bn is hard to get but not impossible. Even for legits, but you must remember that most high level and rich legits play in bot clans and they consider themselves still legits. A fully legit clan will have a VERY hard time to get those money, but is not impossible. However, they should have announced before.
Fully with you about GM interference. It is like in RL, the state will support the big banks because they managed to steal the most and if they fail there will be a big loss in economy for all those ppl that got rich on the back of the government and poor, while the local and niche banks will be helped to die because they respected the law and the big banks will have troubles if there will be competiton sometime in the future, even tho that is highly unlikely.
But worse of all is this "commitment", <b><red>we will only do it now in the name of fairness, each time a dead clan will hold ch for years we will look the other way because that is fair and these are the rules of the game</red></b>.
FFS !!!!
M
Pvp for CH ? lol ......... pvp in L2 is nothing cause too many ppl are 85+ skill enchant +10 weapon 300 +10 with bot and buying adenas !
Bid for ch ? lol too .........
all lvl 9 clan can have a FREE ch, we have many town or area for have a ch for all "real" clan with normal activity
and please ! now Gm only have 2 server, so come in game and see what happen on some field ! ! ! !
some tips for next merge ??
- sell all armor, weapon, soulcrystal, bj in town shop with ncsoft price (like SSC since freya)
- give the power on legit player, come in game and ban bot ! follow adenas mail and transfer !
- make a real ecomony in l2, like a real country. give xxxxxxxxxx adenas for the server and no more. you cant have a real economy system if adenas increase day by day ^^
i play since 5 years, i never understand how ppl can have a new freya set (vesper) 2 week after the update when i saw the price ! ! ! 5 year for buy a dyn set and with +0 enchant and atribut.
You are wrong also. CH bidding IS part of the merger. It was last merger, they said nothing, this means it remains the same. I play for 5 years and i know how it was then, besides the threads are still there.
As such, we asumed will be the same and we prepared as soon as we had the merger date. Sold gear and stuff to have the money. Now they say legits wont be allowed to take part and this is a shame because nobody will reimburse us for the sold gear at discounted prices.
Perhaps for most bots out there 2 bn is nothing and I am sure that is a fact, however i lost everything with the former clan level 9 i made when they decided to take it over and allow botting.
In less than 4 months it is **** hard to make 4 bn starting from nothing, even tho friends helped. We needed 4 bn because wanted to try to bid on 2 CH in case something goes wrong and I lose power, for example, or internet connection just then, so we were preparing alt clan too.
It was a huge effort for a new and small fully legit clan. All for nothing, unfortunatelly, tho now I can buy many ke and keep them for after merger for at least 30% profit if not 100%.
M
Apparently this guy has been reading the GM's memos, and know more than anyone else about the merges and clan hall acquisition.
How else could he say I'm wrong?
Please, can you give us a source for your info MaoMao?
You are wrong because you say that CH bidding and merger are 2 separate things while they are not. They do change the rules because of the merger, otherwise dead clans with 0 ppl active in yaers would have still had their CHs so we wont be bidding on them.
This is a major part of the merger, not e secondary one, one of the things that really are changed because of the merger thus cant be separated the two.
So when they announced the merger they said will tell us what will change and how it will go. They also said we will have the details one month before so we can prepare. As the merger implies bidding for clan halls like last time, we prepared for the bidding too.
I dont say you are wrong in other aspects, heck, maybe in the end will listen to us too and will only eliminate dead clans and alt clans or level 2 ones, not will only allow top clans like the word is going by. But I very much doubt so, it wouldnt be NCSoft if they do things normally, without helping the bots even if they have a huge advantage through the automated bidding.
M
I'm not wrong. I have not stated something false here.
The fact that you assumed stuff and jumped to conclusions preparing has nothing to do with it.
They said we will know what will change 1 month before. They didnt say CH bidding will change untill yesterday. CH bidding is part of the merger, not saying anything means will remain the same. Therefore I did nothing wrong preparing for the merger (gathering money for bid) but the rules changed so I am screwed. Not that this really matters, who cares about legits, but it doesnt change the fact that CH bidding is part of the merger and if something was changed we should have known way before, at least one month or the same time the date for merger was announced.
M
Sooo... Is anyone else as excited as me about the fact that there will be No Clan Halls for a few weeks, and all the Forts/Contested Clan Halls will be massive PvP zones for the first few weeks of the mergers?
yes - tbh i wish u just logged in one day n found urself merged instead of discussing it for weeks on end ><
eat is right in that thats how it was and this is also why current ownership should be irrelevant - clan halls are less important now than they were with the introduction of newbie buffs and clan skills - really who needs ch buffs/rez%/bsoe ? therefore, some current clan hall owners may not have been around had they not been able to pay the inflated ingame prices back at last merge.
ipwn the issue last time (i can be niave but dont think it was program related) was that nc refunded for clan halls they didnt make it clear when they where refunding or that clans where only supposed to have x amount adena at the time = some of the refunds bounced so to speak - at least thats how i understood it.
38 of them are located in Towns.
6 of them are obtained by Siege/Fishing Competition.
These 44 clan halls are more than enough to accomodate all the active major clans of Luna+Franz+Teon. Especially considering that a Clan 11lvl can accommodate ~200 players.
Even though 11lvl Clans in all 3 servers with active population are not more than 10-15 max.
Roughly calculating:
200(clan members)x38(town clan halls)=7600 people can be tagged in Clans that own a Clan Hall.
If we ALSO considering the Siegeable ones:
200(clan members)x44(all type clan halls)=8800 people.
Of course we are not gonna have so many players after the merge, but even with a population of ~3500 players there will be available clan halls for all active major clans that accommodate 150+ people.
For all you people that play in small clans you should consider merging into bigger clans very soon imo.
leave all clan halls locked after merge. leave only forts, seigeable clan halls and castles as refuges. that takes the adena factor out of the equation. pvp or you get nothing.
For all you people that play in small clans you should consider merging into bigger clans very soon imo.
To give up my freedom and become tained by cheated clan levels and skills just for a CH ? No, thanks, but this is not the issue here.
The issues are:
1. Changing rules without enough prior notice;
2. Interference in game and fixing arbitrary limits on who will be eligible and wont be, disregarding game rules;
3. Even tho the interference is justified in the name of fairness (and to some point I agree with it) they say it is a one off and everytime in the future a clan will be dead with 0 active ppl but money in cwh they wont interfere anymore.
Without the point 3. I would have still been able to swallow it, but like this there is no hope, bot clans will die like they do all the time, ppl leave the game because of the problems i detailed in other places, so in the end, since my clan roughly doubles every month (wont do it much longer tho :P ) we would qualify to get one of the dead clan's CH and that is not a hope it is certain, because both premises are correct (game will lose bots fast, my clan will continue to grow unless GMs will strike me for these protests here) so there is hope that one day I would see it through.
But we all know that once taken, even if the clan dies, the CH remains with it for years on end. So they make sure the "active" clans get them and also that they will keep it even tho they will not be "active" anymore.
That is the most sad part.
M
stopped reading after maomao made some sense. the fact that you realize that oversight is needed in the clan hall auction process should tell you that it's broken. everyone who wants a clan hall has to pay whatever the maximum bid is, and the way it's set up now, 2billion is a high enough max price to encourage the use of RMT. also, as has been said, everyone always bids the same price, so whoever can "click faster" gets the clan hall, which encourages third-party program use. you should make a change now, and stick to it, make it a FUN and EXCITING process rather than a set of immoral decisions. in short, give away clan halls during server events. a clan hall is a much cooler prize than 500 EAD scrolls.
stopped reading after maomao made some sense. the fact that you realize that oversight is needed in the clan hall auction process should tell you that it's broken. everyone who wants a clan hall has to pay whatever the maximum bid is, and the way it's set up now, 2billion is a high enough max price to encourage the use of RMT. also, as has been said, everyone always bids the same price, so whoever can "click faster" gets the clan hall, which encourages third-party program use. you should make a change now, and stick to it, make it a FUN and EXCITING process rather than a set of immoral decisions. in short, give away clan halls during server events. a clan hall is a much cooler prize than 500 EAD scrolls.
There are some problem with that, events are rarely clan related, but the main problem is that there are finite clan halls.
Attribution of CH should be changed, but if not that, at least the freeing of Ch from dead and alt clans should be done somehow.
As they can set some arbitrary levels on which clans are given, they can make some for which they are taken. If the limits are reasonable taking into consideration the changing server populations (after a merger will be a very high abandon rate, for instance) and put the limits proportional and not absolute,t hen we have a working situation.
You dont have 100 active unique ppl ? You dont qualify and that is clear for everybody.
You lost half of your clan in the recent banhammer fall ? You dont qualify ANYMORE.
That is easy to understand and fair enough, but there can be other ways. The way they will do it now is the worst of all. Intervene and create a precedent but dont make the effort to really make it fair.
Fair only once is not fair.
M
To give up my freedom and become tained by cheated clan levels and skills just for a CH ? No, thanks, but this is not the issue here.
Cheated clan levels and skills?
Have u ever done Festivals with your clan? Farmed Ballistas for CRP? Got and successfully defended a Castle? Got multiple Heroes tagged in Clan? Done CRP RBs?
Where is the cheat in that?
If u fail to play with other people its fine but accusing the rest of cheating is too much.
Have u ever done Festivals with your clan? Farmed Ballistas for CRP? Got and successfully defended a Castle? Got multiple Heroes tagged in Clan? Done CRP RBs?
Where is the cheat in that?
If u fail to play with other people its fine but accusing the rest of cheating is too much.
Have u ever done Festivals with your clan? Farmed Ballistas for CRP? Got and successfully defended a Castle? Got multiple Heroes tagged in Clan? Done CRP RBs?
Where is the cheat in that?
If u fail to play with other people its fine but accusing the rest of cheating is too much.
i think what he tries to say is, that some of such clans forgot about their history. some (not all) are only able to defend castles and get heroes cause they massivly cheated in the past to get their lvl/gear. and with that cheating they are able to gain heroes, castle, epics. just because some lvl 85 players dont bot anymore doesnt make them legit if they cheated the way up, same for whole clans.
but imo that doesnt matter for the CH thingy. some1 said, that not every1 has spare 100m to give... why not? if u do oly, tw, normal raids, soi, kama, tiat additional to ordinary xp and quests (all things EVERY legit can do), your clanies should have way more than 100m each, if not your clan is just bad and dont deserve a clanhall. and plz do not play the lvl card, seriously, NC gave 60% of lvl 79 for free. also most ppl already got 2 times birthday buff, + all that xp events. if u still not in a lvl range to gain money ig, u play the wrong game or u maybe started the game 3 months ago.
You are wrong also. CH bidding IS part of the merger. It was last merger, they said nothing, this means it remains the same. I play for 5 years and i know how it was then, besides the threads are still there.
As such, we asumed will be the same and we prepared as soon as we had the merger date. Sold gear and stuff to have the money. Now they say legits wont be allowed to take part and this is a shame because nobody will reimburse us for the sold gear at discounted prices.
Perhaps for most bots out there 2 bn is nothing and I am sure that is a fact, however i lost everything with the former clan level 9 i made when they decided to take it over and allow botting.
In less than 4 months it is **** hard to make 4 bn starting from nothing, even tho friends helped. We needed 4 bn because wanted to try to bid on 2 CH in case something goes wrong and I lose power, for example, or internet connection just then, so we were preparing alt clan too.
It was a huge effort for a new and small fully legit clan. All for nothing, unfortunatelly, tho now I can buy many ke and keep them for after merger for at least 30% profit if not 100%.
M
Bolded text where you took a chance and it did not turn out the way you wanted it.
Bolded text where you took a chance and it did not turn out the way you wanted it.
Took a chance ? Isnt it normal to assume Valakas will be on the merged server if they dont say anything about it ?Isnt it normal to asume there wont be more forts, nor more Ch will be created if they dont say anything about it ?
If your government doesnt say there will be war tomorrow, dont you asume it will be peace ?
I would have taken a chance when they would have said when they announced merger: "hey, you know, there will be a change in CH bidding system, we dont tell you wich, but you will have time to adapt" and I still gather the money asuming we will have same theoretical chances as the bots. That would have been an asumption taking chances, it would have been normal to have a leveled playfield, so far GMs didnt eliminate legits form some aspects of the game so openly, intervening directly in the game mechanics but we all know that the bots really decide what they do so it would have been a risk involved. But they didnt say that, therefore I didndt risk anything, just that later at bots cry they thought they have more rights to chs because they are online 24/7 and in the big majority, so they should decide when we get merged and how the CHs will be distributed, because the "active" majority decides, you know...
Cheated clan levels and skills?
Have u ever done Festivals with your clan? Farmed Ballistas for CRP? Got and successfully defended a Castle? Got multiple Heroes tagged in Clan? Done CRP RBs?
Where is the cheat in that?
If u fail to play with other people its fine but accusing the rest of cheating is too much.
So, you are legit Johnny Boy ? GreenFire is legit ? Nice, this comes as a very nice surprise for me, I think... About the legit multiple heroes, well, I think that says it all Johnny boy, It would have been funny if it wouldnt be so sad that you truly believe it...
Besides, who told you I fail toplay with others ? I wouldnt be a CL if I was failing to play with ppl, just that the ppl I play with are legit and we are in minority, because contrary to what you believe, once ppl stop botting, dont become legit, if you robbed banks and you retire after you get 1 bn in "savings" and police+tax authority dont say anything, you are not an honest citizen, you are still a thief.
M
I appreciate your solid position on "legitness". I think most of us can sympathize with your loss of your old clan, and your determination to rebuild from scratch. What you need to realize is...there is not any process NC Soft would reasonably implement which would lead to your clan getting a clan hall, is there?
1. What if NC Soft gave a token item to all clans who currently had a clan hall, then only allowed those clans to bid on the new server for the first 24 hours. That would be fair, right? I mean the clans that saved their adena and earned their clan halls through the bidding process originally shouldn't lose out on their halls because of the merge, should they? You don't have a clan hall now. You are looking at this merge as an opportunity to get a hall. Your "win" would be another clan's loss. How would you feel if YOUR CLAN had a clan hall right now and you were at risk of losing it in the merge. I think you would be singing a very different tune.
2. What if NC Soft simply lifted the adena cap. That would be fair, right? 100% open bidding for clan halls. Do you really think you would have ANY chance of getting a hall? You detailed your struggles to scrape together 2 bill. How would you possibly get 10 bill+?
3. What if NC Soft did stay completely out of things as you request. On the new Euro server there would reasonably be 6+ clans/players wanting to bid on each clan hall. What do you think YOUR chances are of beating the others in this competition? L2 is a highly competitive game but you and your clan simply don't play competitively. You have never earned a hero, you don't kill any epic bosses, you don't pvp, you don't compete. I am not trying to insult you or your clan in any way, I have a lot of respect for your position. What I don't understand is why you as a non-competetive leader feels you would have any reasonable chance to win a competition for clan halls?
Lastly, please keep in mind Sace shared that SOME of the clan halls would be awarded in an advanced process. After that process is completed the remaining clan halls will be made available through open bidding. If that is the case, you lose nothing. The clans who are going to receive the clan halls are likely the level 11 clans with a lot of members. It is those clans who have proven themselves successful in the competitive world of L2, they have clan halls now, and clearly they are prepared to win here. They have a LOT of members with alt clans prepared to each log in and bid for a hall. Giving the sure winners a hall doesn't take anything away from you.
.................
In conclusion, you are angry, we all get it. But you are not angry about this clan hall bidding process. Your arguments are basically "bot bot bot", "adena sellers/buyers", "programs", etc. These are the same arguments you have offered in all your forum posts. Nothing has changed. NC Soft is TRYING to be fair here. Maybe appreciate their efforts, and relax a bit.
I always appreciated publicly when they were tough on bots. I comended them for beginning to realize the game where cheaters can no only cheat in impunity but alsu humiliate legits has no future.
In this case, tho, I proved they are not being fair. I am not saying my clan SHOULD get a CH, I just say give us a chance no matter how small. If the rules are these, dont change them sudenly, and only once, then revert to old rules because if they are fair, you dont change them, and if they are unfair, you change them permanently.
Raising the bid cap would have allowed us to get a CH. We can get 10 bn adena, we did 4 bn, but we would have needed to know before. 10 BN adena for a CH in Dion for instance, is a reasonable amount and with bots tied in battles over aden and rune there are not enough money in the game to take the Dion CHs too. That would have been one fair solution. They say they want to stop ppl from bidding for profit, fine, if they pay 10 bn for a lowbie ch, would they be able to sell higher later ? Perhaps, but after many months and only IF the population on server remains at least at same levels, which wont happen with this current policy.
Giving all clans that are not alt clans or 1 man clans or level 5 and below, etc, a token to be able to bid, would have most likely resulted in a chance for us. I dont say guaranteed CH, there was never a question about guarantee, we knew we will most likely not get CH because of the automated bidders, but we had to take a chance, and this will be denied to us. Automated bidders will concentrate on CHs that are worth a lot and easy to resell, not our poor targets.
It remains to be seen how they will implement this, but if they simply hand over the CHs to the most "active" and populated clans, we dont have any chance. If they allow to bid all real clans and only eliminate the parasites, then yeah, our chances increase dramatically because we are maybe not as fast as a program, but I know a lot about computers and how this game works and I will be able to use that knowledge to get the edge of a crucial second or so.
I am competitive, just that we dont compete with cheaters. You wont play chess with someone that has 9 queens instead of one queen and 8 pawns like you from the start, would you ? I can beat a grand master in that position in a few moves. Is there any point in it for both the GM and the cheater ? I dont think so. And since you are talking about competitivity, and we should not get CH because we are not comeptitive, why on earth would the competitive clans need a CH in the first place ? They have their castles and forts and can take any at any time. I dont agree clans need CH to be competitive, and if they are competitive they dont need CH.
M
good god wall of text and tears, its simple, if ur a major clan in any of the 5 NA server u will prolly end up getting a CH, on the other hand if ur a 77 spoiler with a lvl 5 clan 3 boxes in and 10 more "friends" that u just XP and log in to roleplay then for sure u wont be getting one.
good god wall of text and tears, its simple, if ur a major clan in any of the 5 NA server u will prolly end up getting a CH, on the other hand if ur a 77 spoiler with a lvl 5 clan 3 boxes in and 10 more "friends" that u just XP and log in to roleplay then for sure u wont be getting one.
Says you without reading and with an account registered sep 2010. What happened to you main competitive one ?
M
MaoMao, I'll offer the below final reply and if it doesn't help, I'll end my discussion with you and leave it for others to address (or not) your feelings.
I always appreciated publicly when they were tough on bots. I comended them for beginning to realize the game where cheaters can no only cheat in impunity but alsu humiliate legits has no future.
Whether you realize it or not, whether you appreciate it or not, the CM's and GM's have done a better job of offering fairness and eliminating 3rd party program users in the last 6 months, then has been done in the last 6 years. Are there still cheaters? Yes, and there always will be in a video game. But they have eliminated a VERY large percentage and have many remaining players too scared to run their programs. Those who ignore the risks stand a very good chance of being banned, and fast.
In this case, tho, I proved they are not being fair.
Proved to who? I disagree with you and I know many others do as well. The system of taking clan halls away from those who have them currently is not fair. Leaving the clan halls to be decided by who has the fastest internet connection the first 2 minutes after the servers go live isn't exactly fair either.
I am not saying my clan SHOULD get a CH, I just say give us a chance no matter how small.
You ARE being given a chance. Sace CLEARLY stated that SOME of the clan halls would be awarded in this manner, not all. The remaining clan halls would be bid on through the "normal" process.
Giving all clans that are not alt clans or 1 man clans or level 5 and below, etc, a token to be able to bid, would have most likely resulted in a chance for us.
Again, how would this process be decided? Wouldn't YOUR current clan be seen as an alt clan? LittleCats, your first clan is level 9. Now you created 100% clan which is ?level 7. From what I have seen at siege or fort fights you don't even have a complete party. In the beginning of L2 clans had a max of 40 members. Now clan max is over 200. By most any definition that can reasonably be created your current clan would be seen as an alt clan. The current L2 is designed for LARGE clans. That is why NC Soft changed the clans from 40 members max to 200+. It also makes sense for them to limit the clan halls to ?38 rather then offering 100+.
I am competitive, just that we dont compete with cheaters.
Can you name one clan on your server that meets your standards? One clan that doesn't cheat? If not, then what you are saying is you are competitive but you don't compete with anyone. Does this sound rational to you? Seriously? Either way, the clan halls are simple supply and demand. Large demand, small supply, so you MUST compete to get one. According to you, most cheat and you don't want to compete with them so....logical conclusion....you wouldn't bid for a clan hall?
You can make the same argument for every resource in the game ranging from epics, to 300 crystals, raid bosses, etc. BY DESIGN the game is made to limit resources, create a demand, then allow the players to interact. THAT is the game.
why on earth would the competitive clans need a CH in the first place ? They have their castles and forts and can take any at any time. I dont agree clans need CH to be competitive, and if they are competitive they dont need CH.
This last statement by you really devalues your argument imho. Clan halls help make clans a LOT more competitive. There are so many ways this work, and I am confident you are aware of them but just to quickly name three:
1. If you have a Gludio clan hall (for example) you have a large advantage over others when it comes time to attack or defend Gludio castle. Clan hall would make ANY clan more competitive for sieges.
2. If you have a Giran clan hall (for example) you have an advantage if you have pvp for antharas. You can get to the raid boss faster, get buffs faster from clan hall, etc etc.
3. For most clan activities ranging from raids, pvp, even pve clan halls allow members to move faster, regen mp/hp faster, buff faster, port back faster. It helps competitive clans be more competitive. That is the whole reason there is this much competition over the clan halls.
Put another way, Orfen is an epic raid boss. Even so, it is completely non-competitive. On most servers Orfen is up and anyone can go kill it. No one cares about Orfen because neither the Orfen earring nor any other drops helps clans to be more competitive in pvp, pve, oly or any other aspect of L2. Clan halls do make a difference in these areas, and that is why there SHOULD be highly competitive.
The issues you face are all strong motivators for you to see past your personal walls you place in keeping your clan small, and join a large clan. Maybe if you find 3 other clans with similar feelings to yours, you can merge, make 1 larger clan, then together you would have a MUCH stronger chance of obtaining a clan hall. You would have more adena, pooled crp for clan levels, more members, etc etc. You CHOSE to maintain a very small clan then complain about the problems you face in a small clan.
38 of them are located in Towns.
6 of them are obtained by Siege/Fishing Competition.
These 44 clan halls are more than enough to accomodate all the active major clans of Luna+Franz+Teon. Especially considering that a Clan 11lvl can accommodate ~200 players.
Even though 11lvl Clans in all 3 servers with active population are not more than 10-15 max.
Roughly calculating:
200(clan members)x38(town clan halls)=7600 people can be tagged in Clans that own a Clan Hall.
If we ALSO considering the Siegeable ones:
200(clan members)x44(all type clan halls)=8800 people.
Of course we are not gonna have so many players after the merge, but even with a population of ~3500 players there will be available clan halls for all active major clans that accommodate 150+ people.
For all you people that play in small clans you should consider merging into bigger clans very soon imo.
All these are good enough but I have to add that all Clan Halls are not the same.How about your clan taking a Clan Hall in Gludin while mine takes one in Rune.Will it be fair??
What I want to say is that there are 16 top Clan Halls (if I'm not wrong 4x Rune,4x Goddard,4x Aden,4x Giran),excluding the siege/war Clan Halls.And for sure,there are much more "top" clans in all three servers that want one of these Clan Halls.
By which factors NC will consider giving one of these Clan Hall to some clan??
I think your all giving NCsoft too much credit, most likely they will look at the 3 or 5 clans that currently own each clan hall and decide who is most active/high level or whatever, then that clan will be awarded that clan hall.
Seriously doubt they will look at the hundreds of clans and then decide which ones deserve clan halls in which town.
@ Oracle Clan has more than 10 active members (login every day, not on 24/7-bot definition for active). What you see at sieges is is not the whole clan, most are dead some place and levels are all below 85 so we dont really matter.
But you missed the whole point. I put it clearly yet you missed it so I put in one sentece in essence:
<b>I protest because the rules changed, they changed late and they changed for only this event.</b>
If we are entitled or not to get a CH is beyond the point, you can say we should not get any fort either because there are higher level clans that deserve more, they will be able to port faster to Antharas and whatnot, same with CH, if the limit for bid would have been higher I am sure we could have got one in time at least if not right away.
Fact is we are entitled by the old rules, NC changed them 11 days before merger without prior notice and they will leave dead clans keep clan halls forever after they award CH to them.
If it is fair to distribute manually to intervene and help nohands cl that cant bid in time because of changes to login server which wont allow ranger login without updates, fine, but then free the dead clans CH so in the end after we grow enough we can take one too.
And what is unfair in raising the limit to bid at 100 bn ? If we are to weak we wont be able to get CH so they are all safe for you to grab. What would be the problem then ? If they are auction CH, there should be no limit on how high the auction will go, leave auction go as high as needed until an equilibrium between supply and demand is met, not award them manually !
<b>Imagine at Christie's, there is a fine Van Gogh in auction, ppl bid but there cant be a bid higher than 1 mil $ so the auctioneer looks in the hall and decides to award it to someone that looks like a real art lover. It is the same here.</b>
The fact if we are big enough to deserve a CH is not what I am talking about here, that is a red herring, the straw man said that we deserve to get CH based on our size and activity and you are combating his arguments very well.
M
I think your all giving NCsoft too much credit, most likely they will look at the 3 or 5 clans that currently own each clan hall and decide who is most active/high level or whatever, then that clan will be awarded that clan hall.
Seriously doubt they will look at the hundreds of clans and then decide which ones deserve clan halls in which town. I believe this is exactly how it will work. So basically if you dont have a clan hall now you wont get one in the merge.
I believe this is exactly how it will work. So basically if you dont have a clan hall now you wont get one in the merge.
That probably will have a lot to do with it, but I'd imagine clan lvl and member number will play a part (yes I know everyone will put boxes in). However, it is all speculation on our part at the moment. Might as well wait for a detailed answer on their part before getting too carried away with ourselves.
All these are good enough but I have to add that all Clan Halls are not the same.How about your clan taking a Clan Hall in Gludin while mine takes one in Rune.Will it be fair??
What I want to say is that there are 16 top Clan Halls (if I'm not wrong 4x Rune,4x Goddard,4x Aden,4x Giran),excluding the siege/war Clan Halls.And for sure,there are much more "top" clans in all three servers that want one of these Clan Halls.
By which factors NC will consider giving one of these Clan Hall to some clan??
Like Oracle said, any clan hall is fine because it gives you the advantage to get the castle that is adjacent to the town your clan hall located.
however, It would be VERY good idea for the GMs to consider editing all the clan halls of the server to be of equal grade and provide the same buffs, items etc to balance out the clan hall distribution process for all clans.
Not sure that the recommendation to raise the amount is the right thing... for instance// some legit clans (without alot of those type who seem to come up with billions w/e they want) may have gotten a clan hall at last merge with help from each member... now days some (24 hour a day) players have 2 billion just on themselves let alone the rest of the clan...
Makes sense if you A: are a farmer in which case you got alot or B: are the one who gots lots of money to throw around...
Just saying there are a few on every server that you might wonder how they got all that adena... :rolleyes:or heaven forbid the strongest clans on the servers who had access and limited others access now have all the adena
Oh well, who can say... I only hope the merger is fair to all and not just the ones with the levels and gear and .....game is not just pvp, its a social enviroment with all types... you dont have to be a pvp type to enjoy the game and btw... non-pvp types pay the same for the game as anyone else
To MaoMao, plz read Sace's original post again. Then read it 10 more times. What part is not clear? What part is not fair?
We want to reassure you that we are planning a more fair method of clan hall distribution which will not involve the current built-in auction system. The new distribution method will take into account your clan's size, level, activity and current clan hall ownership status. There will be no racing to make bids, nor squatters taking over clan halls and reselling them for higher prices.
We will post all of the information you will need about the distribution system in a few weeks.
I know that you will have lots of questions and suggestions about the process. We will release complete details in a few weeks. Please be patient and rest assured that this method will be fair.
I protest because the rules changed, they changed late and they changed for only this event.
The rules are NOT changed late. Once again, it is your PERSONAL feelings because of how YOU are affected. It does not apply to MOST L2 players.
What makes these rule changes "late"? They were announced two weeks before the merge happens. Also it was announced the clan halls wont be handed out immediately until their process is finalized so it is quite reasonable to believe there is a month notice between when the announcement was made, and when the halls are awarded. Whether it is 2 weeks notice or a month notice, it is advanced notice.
And "they changed only for this event". Where does that make any sense. This is a 1 time event. Sure server mergers happened once before, a couple years ago. NC Soft saw there were fairness issues here, they have heard our feedback, and now they are responding. That is what a good company does.
Imagine at Christie's, there is a fine Van Gogh in auction, ppl bid but there cant be a bid higher than 1 mil $ so the auctioneer looks in the hall and decides to award it to someone that looks like a real art lover. It is the same here.
Bad example. A better one would be.....three people have a Van Gogh painting. The cops find out they are all forgeries but the seller had the original and used it to make forgeries. Now the court needs to decide which one of the three purchasers will be given the real painting.
The clan halls are in use on all 3 servers. As you have shared, many of those clan halls are being held by alt clans, banned clans, etc. So NC Soft will do their best to fairly decide who among the current owners are able to keep their halls, and who is not.
You are viewing this merger as an opportunist. You want existing clans to lose their halls so YOU can make a personal gain. How is that fair in any way? The merger is being made to help make L2 more competitive. You are one of literally hundreds of small, low level clans that exist between the merged servers. You are upset because you wanted to take advantage of the situation and now are being blocked. The purpose of the merger wasn't so that small low level servers could get a clan hall. You have NOTHING to be upset for in any way imo. You are acting like a person who wants the real Van Gogh after 3 people already paid for it and the courts are deciding which of the three will get it. You lose NOTHING in this merge. You didn't have anything before the merge, by ANY aspect of gaming design you shouldn't have one after. There are 100+ clans with higher level, more members, more adena then yours.
Just some straight talk. I wish to share another point of view which seems to be in alignment with NC Soft's.
The clan halls are in use on all 3 servers. As you have shared, many of those clan halls are being held by alt clans, banned clans, etc. So NC Soft will do their best to fairly decide who among the current owners are able to keep their halls, and who is not.
You are viewing this merger as an opportunist. You want existing clans to lose their halls so YOU can make a personal gain. How is that fair in any way? The merger is being made to help make L2 more competitive. You are one of literally hundreds of small, low level clans that exist between the merged servers. You are upset because you wanted to take advantage of the situation and now are being blocked. The purpose of the merger wasn't so that small low level servers could get a clan hall. You have NOTHING to be upset for in any way imo. You are acting like a person who wants the real Van Gogh after 3 people already paid for it and the courts are deciding which of the three will get it. You lose NOTHING in this merge. You didn't have anything before the merge, by ANY aspect of gaming design you shouldn't have one after. There are 100+ clans with higher level, more members, more adena then yours.
Just some straight talk. I wish to share another point of view which seems to be in alignment with NC Soft's.
1. If they have more adena, then why they dont like to be raised the max bid cap ? If it is an auction, the highest bidder should win, fair is this, not the auctioneer to decide out of the bidding rules.
2. The rules did change late. It was supposed to be announced any change 1 month before the merger, they didnt, it meant there is no change in bidding, so I got prepared by sacrificing many things.
3. If it was so that the clans that owned CHs before will have the right to participate, then there are 3 legit clans in franz that have CH from the beginning, none has banned leader, but one is dead with only 1 member i see once a month. So does that mean that the 2 other legit clans will be able to keep theirs ? One has fewer ppl that mine, so they wont be able to keep theirs by new rules.
4. The word opportunistic doesnt apply to anyone. I didnt want this merger, the bots wanted it and they got it because they are in majority and want to kill the game faster than before. Fine was granted merger to them. Now they held CHs and want to have them still, and also merge, so what they do, they force NCsoft to make sure they get the CHs because they are online 24/7. Fine, but i dont agree with that. I am not opportunistic for asking the rules to remain the same, the ppl that changed the rules are opportunistic, if you want someone to be opportunistic.
5. One of the points i raised is why the rules change only now, and GMs dont hand out in the name of fairness CHs of dead and merged clans later on ? You dont comment on that at all, so i think you agree that it is unfair for small clans to have CH now, but somehow that is fair later on ?
The definition of mafia state is the following: <b>A mafia state is one in which the gangsters dont operate outside of the law, whenever they need something there is an exception granted by law at their request.</b> L2 world fits that perfectly, if there was any doubt, now that is perfectly clear. The bots wanted merger, they got it, they wanted to block access to anyone but their clans, they managed that too. I wonder what will they get next :) Some requested that I am banned, I think that will be granted too. You win, but you know what, I dont care.
M
2. The rules did change late. It was supposed to be announced any change 1 month before the merger, they didnt, it meant there is no change in bidding, so I got prepared by sacrificing many things.
M
show all of us where exactly it was stated that.......
Hasnt anyone already realised nc will do as they chose - it may be relevant, more likely not, it may be logical, more likely not, it will absolutely not please everyone.
as someone that lost a clan hall at the last merges im still not getting why it matters so much - yes i absolutely would have tried for one this time if it was like last and a free for all but tbh only because i saw how much they traded for.
If u want to be able to port directly to a castle for sieges take the relevant fort ? the raid reason idk i dont really do them but surely any raid of worth ppl would know where to be n when :-S
Its all reminding me of when it snows n all supermarkets run out of bread not because the trucks cant deliver but because ppl that eat a loaf a week for idk what reason decide they need 6 loaves :-S
mostly what ive read seems to be everyone having there own personal interests in sight n not much impartiality.
wouldnt a clan hall in some areas mostly benefit the clans that support new players - in that new players wont have 80+ buffer alts to make the grind easier, they will be happy to top up newbie buffs with whatever a clan hall can offer and grateful past 40 for the cheap ports, ch items.
show all of us where exactly it was stated that.......
Sace said:
"Still no word on when, I'm sorry. The soonest would be in a little over a month, <b>because we want to give you 1 month notice before the merges actually happen</b>. The latest... I would like to say before 6 months. I'd even say its 80% chance it will happen before 3 months from now. But the very reason that we haven't announced dates is because the dates and plans keep on changing. Therefore, speculate at your own risk. We will announce the dates when they are definite.
thx"
How can you prepare if you dont know any details ? We had another merger amd it was done a specific way respecting game rules. If they didnt announce rules will change when merge was announced (BTW they didnt respect the 1 month+ rule they made themselves even when they did that), it was supposed to be understood they wont and only details regarding duplicated names for chars, clans, alliances, pets, etc, friendlists, mails, more than 7 chars per account, plus other small details like resetting forts castles and oly will remain to be fixed.
Perhaps I was expecting too much from them because they started to care sometime ago when AION hit the fan, but I guess it was too good to last and you are right, expect the unexpected, sudden rules change at bot request will happen all the time, mafia state in it's all spledor. Do we wonder they are running in the red for some time ? Mafia states will never be prosperous.
M
I even bolded that. Try to read a bit :)
M
P.S. I dont care about banning and I said it before, if they feel that ppl still dont know the game is full of cheaters, if they think they can still hide that by banning ppl that talk about this, if they think they can hide the fact that bots control what they do and every bot wish has been fulfilled in the last 2 months at least, then they should ban me. Perhaps this will bring more ppl in and will make the losses turn into profit. Shoot the messenger, that will solve all problems. I was a faithful subscriber 5 years with 2 accounts and payed for countless other ppl too, but this is just too much, it begins to look like a private, GMs hand over items to the ppl that pay the most trains disregarding game rules and mechanics. It is unprecedented and a big turn for the worse.
You take that quote out of context, maybe that's why you didn't offer a link?
That quote was for when the server mergers would happen, not the rules related to the merge. Those rules are still not up in completion.
The bottom line is....you have nothing short of an extremist view. You have a very unique viewpoint, one that only a few players can identify with, and then you alienate them by ranting. Do you ever start to feel a bit crazy?
You take that quote out of context, maybe that's why you didn't offer a link?
That quote was for when the server mergers would happen, not the rules related to the merge. Those rules are still not up in completion.
The bottom line is....you have nothing short of an extremist view. You have a very unique viewpoint, one that only a few players can identify with, and then you alienate them by ranting. Do you ever start to feel a bit crazy?
I believe this game should be played by ther rules and GMs should enforce them not change each time cheaters request it. If that means I am unique and rare in this game, then I should be banned because I wont change this point of view and I will always ask for the rules to be enforced, annoying you and GMs. SO I am awaiting the punishment, even tho I know wont come now, but later on when things will cool down a bit, but I am cool with it. As such, I quit the forums and leave you have fun till the game will end. If I wont be banned, however, I will be last when the lights will go out, my clan will still be legit and we will still prova that all bots raethorics about them being indispensable for the game is just BS. I will prove I can be rich, high level and lead a large (for legits) clan all the time having more fun that the AFK ppl.
Bye.
M
Ppl may wonder why am I so angry before the details have been announced ?
Here is why:
1. <b>It is a matter of principles</b>. NCSoft should NOT intervene in the game to help no matter who against no matter who, if the bidding rules are these, they should EITHER change bidding rules LONG before something like this merger OR leave them as they are.
2. <b>It is a matter of timing</b>. They said they will give us a month notice on how the merge will go. Less than 2 weeks before the merger, after I sold my gear at discounted price to make sure I manage the amount requested, we find out that our efforts are in vain and the bots will win once again because the rules have changed.
3. <b>It is a matter of implementation</b>. No matter what the criteria regarding clan online and membership will be used, full legit clans stand no chance because bots are in the big majority and high level legits play with them. Therefore we wont be able to get a clan hall, but that could have been different and here it is how:
A- <b>You say you want to distribute fairly so alt clans wont occupy clan halls for nothing or to resell for profit.</b> Fair enough, completely agreed if that is the reason, but the implementation is not hinting in that direction. You can achieve that VERY easy by returning to auction clans taken by those ppl. Say, a clan that is inactive in last month or only has some alts, level 5 or below, will lose the CH it got and those will be put to auction again. Dont distribute to whom you think is worth it, but ban from it the unworthy ppl, because that is the declared aim, you say you want to prevent those from getting CHs, then why you dont do just that, prevent them from holding what they took just for profit or to prevent others form using ? That is the most fair solution and they know it. If a clan is so active and has so many ppl online, then it will be very easy for the super skilled CL to bid in time, not to mention that those are really bots and will bid automatically anyway.
B-<b>If you intervene now you should continue to do it</b> and free the CH held by dead clans (banned leader, merged clans, etc) set a minimal treshold under which the CH will be freed by a GM, for instance, less than 20 different ppl logged last month or so. Claiming that you want fairness but only for initial distribution is just BS. You are either fair all the time or you leave the game take it's unfair course.
As a legit I know how unfair it is, but GM intervention to make it even more unfair for us, that is something so awful that can make me indifferent to GM threats and continue to speak out. Instead of a sad life and an awful living (in the game, hehe), better dead (in the game also :P ).
I hope it is clear now why i deeply resent this move and i find it shamefully unfair, even for NCsoft GMs.
M
I've been 100% legit since I started playing this game and I feel insulted by the way you try to portrait legits :/ Please stop making us look like a bunch of crybabies, incapable of leveling up, playing the market and pvp'ing. There are legit, active pvp endgame clans that hold clan halls right now. So please, stop pretending to yourself that you're speaking for the "legit community" and stop blaming bots on the fact that your clan isn't doing well.
Sooo... Is anyone else as excited as me about the fact that there will be No Clan Halls for a few weeks, and all the Forts/Contested Clan Halls will be massive PvP zones for the first few weeks of the mergers?
Absolutely!
Couple of weeks of constant siege sounds absolutely amazing! Maybe the game is better off without clanhalls, hehe.
So you've gathered 2bil for a CH. Big deal! Go for vacations on Fantasy Island, buy a rediculously expensive headset, buy a bossjewel or throw the adena on the ground in Giran for all I care, just stop whining pls.
Making money is part of the game, you dont have to spend it on a CH so use it for something else instead of QQing in 100 posts here omg.
As for the Clanhall issue, if they truly wanna be fair they wont just give each ch to the most active clan on all servers that holds this exact ch. They should make a list with criteria they chose (like clan level, number of members b4 they announced CH changes, mb age of clan etc) and then go down from the top, Highest lvl CHs to highest priority clans working down to lowest lvl CHs.
Why people dont just freaking Quit before they become whiny Forum QQ'er and quit their jobs just to have more time to make 12.000 posts on this forum to cry about everything possible?
What is about clans they own atm a clan hall ACTIVE or INACTIVE clan doesnt matter...... will they get the 2 bil back before merges? Or are they going to loose that money too?
what if a clan will be holding a siegeable clanhall in the time of distributing regural ones?
(i guess NCSoft has it all covered, but better safe then sorry)
@Mao - go get a fort, no one cares about you or your clan ...
Legits will not accept wars, so happy PK. Brez is 4 mil and lower, and 50% rez is nothing for them, they get exp very hard.
There will be PvP.
M
Legits do accept wars. Please stop saying ********.
To give up my freedom and become tained by cheated clan levels and skills just for a CH ? No, thanks, but this is not the issue here.
There are fully legit clans, you know. Even the big ones.
some1 said, that not every1 has spare 100m to give... why not? if u do oly, tw, normal raids, soi, kama, tiat additional to ordinary xp and quests (all things EVERY legit can do), your clanies should have way more than 100m each, if not your clan is just bad and dont deserve a clanhall. and plz do not play the lvl card, seriously, NC gave 60% of lvl 79 for free. also most ppl already got 2 times birthday buff, + all that xp events. if u still not in a lvl range to gain money ig, u play the wrong game or u maybe started the game 3 months ago.
still don't have 100 mil to spare. >.> Yeah, yeah, I could be much more active on market, level faster and do not take few-months breaks on playing during the 3 years I play here... but I didn't. Does that make my clan not worthy of ch?
@ Oracle Clan has more than 10 active members (login every day, not on 24/7-bot definition for active).
Omg... 10 active members. O.o why don't you already merge into another clan? Even 15 active members is hardly an alive clan (half-dead I'd say).
If I wont be banned, however, I will be last when the lights will go out, my clan will still be legit and we will still prova that all bots raethorics about them being indispensable for the game is just BS. I will prove I can be rich, high level and lead a large (for legits) clan all the time having more fun that the AFK ppl.
Bye.
M
Omg. Sorry to break your illusions, but you guys aren't the last legit clan in the world. >.> Large (for legits) clan isn't consisting of members for 2 parties (excluding bots). If you get 4 full parties of players, then you can start talking about anything. Otherwise, your clan is just small. Hard to say when the big clan starts, but... I hope you understand what I'm saying.
And for your information, I play only in legit clans and been 1000% legit from day 1.
In skimming the 9 pages I haven't seen this wondered - why not make more clan halls? Oren, Hunters Village, and Heine - have lots of space that could be used as clan halls - why not? Aren't there even empty building 'facades' in Aden that could house clan halls.
In skimming the 9 pages I haven't seen this wondered - why not make more clan halls? Oren, Hunters Village, and Heine - have lots of space that could be used as clan halls - why not? Aren't there even empty building 'facades' in Aden that could house clan halls.
that has been suggested for a long time.. but so far NCK has not increased the number.
The funniest part about all this debate, not everyone will be happy about how the clan halls are distributed. No matter what NCSoft does with all the issues connected to the merge most of the community will not be satisfied.
It is a game that, like life, can not be made fair for everyone. It is an impossible enigma.
L2 is an xp and resource game. Resources = adena and items (epics, clan halls, gear, etc)
The solution for complaints about how it's hard to xp isn't to make the servers 3x, and the solutions for epics, clan halls and other top items isn't to make more of the items available. There is SUPPOSED to be a conflict between supply and demand. It is a natural and good part of the game.
If all clans had a clan hall, if all dd's had 85 lvl and epics/top weapons/300 attribute/etc, then the game would be pointless. There would be no reason to go for the siegable clan halls, there would be no reason to compete. It would be just like going to the arena all day and "pvp".
The solution for complaints about how it's hard to xp isn't to make the servers 3x, and the solutions for epics, clan halls and other top items isn't to make more of the items available. There is SUPPOSED to be a conflict between supply and demand. It is a natural and good part of the game.
Are there supposed to be 5->1 merges? Are they a solution to anything? Are such merges a natural and good part of the game?
There are fully legit clans, you know. Even the big ones.
You are not understand MaoMao.I will try to explain how he thinks:
1st All who are more lucky than I - cheaters.
2nd Everyone who has equip better than I have - cheaters and e-buyers
3rd Everyone who has bigger level than I have - cheaters and bots.
He has weapon with 300 atr
He is 83 level
Why I cant defeat him on olly?
Sooo... Is anyone else as excited as me about the fact that there will be No Clan Halls for a few weeks, and all the Forts/Contested Clan Halls will be massive PvP zones for the first few weeks of the mergers?
We are Jyrki... I'll see you on the fields, good luck. :)
Open up new (additional) clan halls in every possible building in every town. Even if this isn't quite enough to supply a ch to active clans who have them now, it will certainly ease the strain. Perhaps we can end up with three or four times the current ch number.
What is about clans they own atm a clan hall ACTIVE or INACTIVE clan doesnt matter...... will they get the 2 bil back before merges? Or are they going to loose that money too?
These clans will probably get a refund when the clan halls are distributed, provided they don't get placed in a clan hall.
Open up new (additional) clan halls in every possible building in every town. Even if this isn't quite enough to supply a ch to active clans who have them now, it will certainly ease the strain. Perhaps we can end up with three or four times the current ch number.
~RumP
It's been said MANY times before.
NC West, which administrates L2 for us, does not have the ability to add new clan halls, new mobs, new classes, new armors/weapons, etc etc.
They do have the power to check/uncheck EXISTING options in the game, and to manually make changes via GMs.
maomao, if there was a bidding for a clanhall, I would find out what clan hall your clan was going for, and bid higher then you just to spite having to read 8 pages of non-stop crying from you.
maomao, if there was a bidding for a clanhall, I would find out what clan hall your clan was going for, and bid higher then you just to spite having to read 8 pages of non-stop crying from you.
You wont be able to, first because GMs will hand out the clans, second because you cant bid more than 2 bn, third because you wont have time to bid for your ch, not to mention others if it is a bidding. I'm cool with it, I accepted the fate, I know I wont be able to compete with cheaters and you wont hear any more "cry" for justice.
@OneWingedWarrior:
NC Interactive does have the ability to make new mobs (at least old mobs with other stats), change stats on things, they can edit database. Tho it is unlikely they can design visuals for new chars, I would like to know who designed the santa event last 2 years.
@FistOfJustice for someone playing for a couple of months you have a big mouth. But I will answer you. The reason I dont win in oly is because I dont seek to win. I leave all that pleasure to other 5 months old account heroes like you.
M
Some interesting points of view in the thread ... and some not.
Don't really care if my vote counts for anything but here goes anyway:
Clan should only have 1 CH or 1 Castle but not be able to hold both. (mainly because it will free up some CH for others.)
CH and Castles should be available for Ally's to use. Therefore CH/Castle cannot be owned by main plus any other taken up by ally.
Clans holding CH/Castle must complete a number of participation activities within a 3 month timeframe. This may not have to be all PVP or seige but can include RB, TW, Clan rep points etc. Clans wishing to "Bid" for hall must also complete similar activities to prove worth for holding CH/Castle.
Clans should compete to hold CH on a 3 monthly basis. You can still nominate to fight for the CH of your choice - if you own one in gludin you should be able to try for rune but will lose gluding if successful. If more than 1 clan nominates to fight for a CH then the clan that earns the highest rep points prior to the date of CH contest.
However this is structured, my preference is to make sure Clans are active and have ppl working toward a common goal.
@Aussie1
Interesting points BUT:
1. They will take castles with alt clans like now. Maybe the one holding the Wards will be different if there will be competiton on the server, which I doubt, so maybe there will be 2 CH max up for grabs in 2 ocasions.
2. Same as 1.
3. Tho that will be some annoyance for them, they will just hop back and forth from main and alt clans to hold CHs.
4. Competing for CH is a good idea. Since they are auction CHs, the competing should be done in bidding at a set time, much like forts are held for a max time and then repositioned. Bidding will be done without any ceiling and the former tennant will take the money minus the fee (10 % could be too much, tho, if bids will go to very big amounts and the bidding time will come up too often)
This will be a real fair solution and it can be done without editing the game, just gm puts chs for sale every month or so, and they remove the bid limit, voila, fair for all, but who cares for fairness.
M
P.S. For the real trolls, I dont ask for anything nor I complain about something, it was just a discussion about what could have been done if the motivation for intervening in game was the quest for fairness, just hipothetically speaking.
P.S. 2 If #4 would have been applied, next year at last merger we will not have the same discussion, ppl will treat CHs just as forts, a few days lost on ownership, who cares, so no more drama at all.
P.S. 3 @Everyone: This is not a discussion about who is entitled to bid at an auction, the only thing that should decide an auction should be the highest bid without any limit. The fact that a clan or another deserves or not a CH based on some arbitrary criteria should have no impact on the price they pay. This game is about economics as much as about PvP. The richest and willing to pay for CH should win, not whoever is more online or has more wars, that should be irrelevant in the bidding and should be kept out of this discussion. We want fairness in an auction, not decide what clan is best, I say it again, on arbitrary criteria. Not all clans have same goals in game, NCsoft should give the liberty of PvP clans to PvP and the others to play as they wish. There are forts and battle clan halls for PvP ppl, castles, i think it is enough.
maomao is strange, even tho i have no hope of getting a ch, i can see how big clans with more activity gets unfairly treated if they cant get a clan hall due to exploit reasons, like some clan using alts biddin on all of them. In fact those big clans have more money and if not for fair distribution they will probably all get more than 1 ch....chill out
@Aussie1
Interesting points BUT:
4. Competing for CH is a good idea. Since they are auction CHs, the competing should be done in bidding at a set time, much like forts are held for a max time and then repositioned. Bidding will be done without any ceiling and the former tennant will take the money minus the fee (10 % could be too much, tho, if bids will go to very big amounts and the bidding time will come up too often)
M,
Agree that my comments are imperfect but are offered as options to a system that is heavily weighted in the favour of rich but sometimes inactives.
On your comment above, i do not think that the CH should be bid for.
IMO it would just support those with bots etc. Remove the adena component until you actually own the CH and reduce the amount of upkeep required.
The real issue is to make the competing clans work as a group, before obtaining the chance of a CH by collecting the pre-requisites. If toons jump from clan to clan, they still have to repeat this and i am sure the sheer boredom would result in less of this type of action.
The reward of owning the CH for 3 months would be considerable. Currently the reward for a castle is actually 1 month (chance of losing seige if you do not work hard).
i think they bring up a valid point though... Whats to stop NCSOFT from deciding that the next best potental owner for a ch is an alt clan of mains who already have a clan hall?
ps: define irony......
I log in and hey Ive got a ch assigned to me lolololol
(trust me if that ever happend id sell to the LOWEST bidder llolol)
maomao is strange, even tho i have no hope of getting a ch, i can see how big clans with more activity gets unfairly treated if they cant get a clan hall due to exploit reasons, like some clan using alts biddin on all of them. In fact those big clans have more money and if not for fair distribution they will probably all get more than 1 ch....chill out
I never contested the right of big clans to have a CH, nor did I say that we deserve one because we are legits or big enough, but the issue at bidding is price and if there is an exploit, remove it. No other components should be taken into account, especially those that give an advantage to someone who is ridiculously online 24/7. If it is for PvP to be a criteria, make all CH contestable in PvP, but as long as it is all about auction, should remain all about auction, nothing more, nothing less. I dont go to PvP CH to buy off the NPCs to give it to me even tho i lost the battle, do I ? PvP Ch are about PvP, forts, castles, why we involve these things in a simple auction, aren't there enough castles forts and battle CHs for all the PvP big clans out there ?
<b>If it is for fairness, remove the exploit, not become judgemental taking into consideration the way YOU think the game should and has to be played. </b>
Ban the automated bidders, make possible limitless bids, that is the real solution, everything else is based on arbitrary criteria and will most likely create a lot of anger on a lot of ppl that now are happy because legits have been eliminated and cheer on my defeat here. It is highly unlikely that all will be happy with the criteria GMs will announce and many alt clans will get a CH based on those.
See that i dont even ask for repositioning of CHs of inactive clans IF GMs stay out of it. Dura lex, sed lex...
M
P.S. If you have a big active clan with 100s of ppl, should be no problem to gather 100 BN for a ch in Aden, you play together, you are all as one, unlike us which cant play together as someone was saying so you win fair and square without GM involvement, but you dont like that, I wonder why...
I give here a solution if it has to be GM involvement that will keep the spirit of the game alive and will also be fair for all. Before that, however, clans taht held CH previously will be reimbursed the 2 bn that max bid used to be.
1. GM will make an open bidding outside of the game if it is not possible in game and all ppl can bid in a few days as much as they like on any CH, but only one per clan level > 5 because that involves some CRP and proves the clan is serious a bit. There can be a prequalification round, where you enlist so they can check if you have clan level 6 at least and you are the CL, for instance in this forum.
2. At bid closure GMs will check if those ppl have those money in cwh or in cl inventory. If the winner of bid doesnt have, then they check the second bid and so on till there is one that has those money and will get the CH.
Is it hard ? Is it unfair ? You have one week or so to bid, you can bid any amount, in case bid goes above 100 bn there can be solutions to hold the money, important is to have them at moment of the bid closure. GMs can check easy if you have the money, voila, they take the money, CH has owner. Simple and uncontroversial.
You dont like that some ppl are rich and you prefer to keep you gear ? Tough luck, there can be forts and castles for you. If someone pays tens of BNs for a CH, that is a proof he/she is serious, with a serious clan or at least the means to maintain one.
And dont come with the ebay ****, because that is involved now too, and if it is to eliminate cheaters, then the big clans that will qualify now wont qualify anymore, so it is irelevant in any situation and criteria they will choose.
P.S. What about auction guys in towns, those that sell sa 16 and the like ? They can auction items that will allow you to redeem for speciffic CHs. You have plenty of time to bid, the bid times will be announced, there can be one CH at a time in all towns that have auction guy, so all is simple and set.
I give here a solution if it has to be GM involvement that will keep the spirit of the game alive and will also be fair for all. Before that, however, clans that held CH previously will be reimbursed the 2 bn that max bid used to be.
You can keep repeating your solution, but its not going to happen anyways since the decision has already been made final. And I am glad it is!
Your rant about letting people bid has even less fairness then what is proposed by NCwest. And then im not even talking about letting clan level 5's bid, which should be 9+ max... Not to take in the amount of time it would take for GM's to verify each bid, so what your asking is absurd. Next to that, making people pay 10kkk or 100kkk for a CH will cripple the economy in the game.
The solution of making a selection between the current clan hall owners, is the most fair it can be. If your clan has no clan hall already, you sure as hell won't miss it now. Besides that, if you could raise 100kkk which you say is no problem at all, you should have bought a clan hall a long time ago.
So please stop making your ridiculous propositions, because it's not going as you wanted it to go.
So you say that GMs wont take time to verify any clan, they will just handout them based on level (and i said level should be higher than 5 so some CRP is involved) ?
They have to verify much more by this method, the online, the active members, much-much more, while in my method will only verify a few ppl and their adena so what I am asking is not absurd, it is simpler and easier. Not to mention NPC method in P.S.
I never said i can raise 100 bn, I just say that top clans should have no problem with that. They all play together and all, that is the real clan ppl, so they should be able to raise 100 bn in a couple of days if not faster.
I dont buy CH from cheaters because they will just take the money and give nothing, you cant trust cheaters, can you ?
BTW where did I repeat this solution before :o ?
Besides, my method has the merit of also diferentiating between CHs, the higher rated ones will go for more money, while in GM handout method, who will get what CH, dont you think it is way too much to do and decide for GMs in the method they chose ?
M
P.S. It is not going as i wanted it to go or it is not going as the RULES say it should go ? Cant you see any difference there ?
I’ve not been this excited in a long time, No clan halls !!! No heroes !!! PVP Nirvana!!!
oh yes, no heroes = no whining/**** talk channel :D
no halls for anyone .. that would be fair.
yust close them.WTS empty buildings in starter villages + oren + hv (+ heine?)
why are some of them closed off with doors (after prelude/C1) if they're empty?
Why people dont just freaking Quit before they become whiny Forum QQ'er and quit their jobs just to have more time to make 12.000 posts on this forum to cry about everything possible?Where did u find the time to QQ about that! :D
+1... I dont understand why Heine didnt have any CH from start. The others are villages, but Heine ??
Ah villages would make sense, but isn't Oren a castle town aswell?
All of the clan halls on the new servers will be locked-down by NCsoft immediately after the merge on October 5 and will remain locked-down until the distribution process is completed.
Sace, why not open up the clan halls in Heine and Oren? It will be atlest 10 more halls for clans.
And make CH's instanced! :P didnt payed attention at whole topic, so ill ask, due changes in reciving CH's NCSoft will give back adena from last bids or not? aha and if you will , when it will happen?
@FistOfJustice for someone playing for a couple of months you have a big mouth. But I will answer you. The reason I dont win in oly is because I dont seek to win. I leave all that pleasure to other 5 months old account heroes like you.
M
Oh my God, just for info I'm playing in Lineage2 on Teon server already four years, playing time in L2 and forum reg. are not the same things,my dear.But if you didn't think so, means that I wasn't mistaken about you.So keep crying. And If yoг did't read my post until Sace edited that, I repeat I'm looking for you ingame nick and clan.Btw I'm already got 2 points on you,but it's just the beginning :)
I never contested the right of big clans to have a CH, nor did I say that we deserve one because we are legits or big enough, but the issue at bidding is price and if there is an exploit, remove it. No other components should be taken into account, especially those that give an advantage to someone who is ridiculously online 24/7. If it is for PvP to be a criteria, make all CH contestable in PvP, but as long as it is all about auction, should remain all about auction, nothing more, nothing less. I dont go to PvP CH to buy off the NPCs to give it to me even tho i lost the battle, do I ? PvP Ch are about PvP, forts, castles, why we involve these things in a simple auction, aren't there enough castles forts and battle CHs for all the PvP big clans out there ?
<b>If it is for fairness, remove the exploit, not become judgemental taking into consideration the way YOU think the game should and has to be played. </b>
Ban the automated bidders, make possible limitless bids, that is the real solution, everything else is based on arbitrary criteria and will most likely create a lot of anger on a lot of ppl that now are happy because legits have been eliminated and cheer on my defeat here. It is highly unlikely that all will be happy with the criteria GMs will announce and many alt clans will get a CH based on those.
See that i dont even ask for repositioning of CHs of inactive clans IF GMs stay out of it. Dura lex, sed lex...
M
P.S. If you have a big active clan with 100s of ppl, should be no problem to gather 100 BN for a ch in Aden, you play together, you are all as one, unlike us which cant play together as someone was saying so you win fair and square without GM involvement, but you dont like that, I wonder why...
There is a bidding cap of 2 billion......you need to read the posts
After reading most of what you people have written here and spoken to some friends ingame I came up with some ideas which I think are good:
1. Remove the cap for bidding for clan halls. That way the clans will decide by themselves how much it is worth to bid for a clanhall.
The spammers will flame on me here saying - OMG the bots have more adena then we do!
But what they miss is 1.- NC banned most of the bots recently; 2.- What a bot needs a CH for if they have to pay 20+bil for it? Who will give more in the future? Bots would prefer to sell their adena for RL money.
2. Increase the maintenance fee for a clan hall to let's say ... 200mil/month for highest grade CH and 100mil/month for lowest grade CH.
Q:Why would that be a must?
A1:Because the current fee of 1mil/month is so ... C1-C2. We make 1mil in 5-10min of hunting in some areas.
A2:This way a dying clan is going to free the CH instead of keeping it unusable for others.
A3:People will be forced to put adena in CWH in order to help the clan leader. It will give a ... goal ... a boost of teamplay and more.
2a. This is a more complex one and I am not sure it can be implemented:
Make the maintenance fee a variable dependent on the number of active clan members (the more members the lesser fee) from different accounts or the time spent by clan members outside of town each month or even create a connection to the olympiad somehow.
There may be plenty of ideas in this area but the basic idea I have is - more activity = lesser fee, lower activity = higher fee.
P.P. I am creating a different thread with this one in an attempt to attract GM attention.
After reading most of what you people have written here and spoken to some friends ingame I came up with some ideas which I think are good:
1. Remove the cap for bidding for clan halls. That way the clans will decide by themselves how much it is worth to bid for a clanhall.
The spammers will flame on me here saying - OMG the bots have more adena then we do!
But what they miss is 1.- NC banned most of the bots recently; 2.- What a bot needs a CH for if they have to pay 20+bil for it? Who will give more in the future? Bots would prefer to sell their adena for RL money.
2. Increase the maintenance fee for a clan hall to let's say ... 200mil/month for highest grade CH and 100mil/month for lowest grade CH.
Q:Why would that be a must?
A1:Because the current fee of 1mil/month is so ... C1-C2. We make 1mil in 5-10min of hunting in some areas.
A2:This way a dying clan is going to free the CH instead of keeping it unusable for others.
A3:People will be forced to put adena in CWH in order to help the clan leader. It will give a ... goal ... a boost of teamplay and more.
2a. This is a more complex one and I am not sure it can be implemented:
Make the maintenance fee a variable dependent on the number of active clan members (the more members the lesser fee) from different accounts or the time spent by clan members outside of town each month or even create a connection to the olympiad somehow.
There may be plenty of ideas in this area but the basic idea I have is - more activity = lesser fee, lower activity = higher fee.
P.P. I am creating a different thread with this one in an attempt to attract GM attention.
Where is anyone on the impression that legit people can afford 100 - 200 mil a month for a clan hall? I love to know where you hunt to get 1 mil every 10 minutes because Im 80+ and yet to find the imagery land where this happens lol
Especially for an archer who needs arrows ss and ghp to hunt lol
PS cost 3.5 mil a week for a clan hall if you owned one you would know that. 3.5 mil a week = 14 mil a month.
But what they miss is 1.- NC banned most of the bots recently; Good joke, got another one?
2.- What a bot needs a CH for if they have to pay 20+bil for it? Who will give more in the future? Bots would prefer to sell their adena for RL money.
There are bots and bots. I personally couldnt care less about farmers, its sad but the game wouldnt survive without them anymore. Much worse are the 12yo kids that bot a toon to 85, throw in some shinies they got with daddys creditcard and then join pvp clans and start trashing all day (botting back the lost xp over night).
Anyway easiest solution would be to do it like in RoM..just make CHs instanced so whoever wants the Goddad one can get it as long as he can afford it~
The funniest part about all this debate, not everyone will be happy about how the clan halls are distributed. No matter what NCSoft does with all the issues connected to the merge most of the community will not be satisfied.
It is a game that, like life, can not be made fair for everyone. It is an impossible enigma.
It's a game , ... annything is possible, program it, implement it
bam its done, NOTHING is impossible in games.
No limits at all except the ones of u'r own imagination !
Go go go create more things!
suggestion :
the houses at the lizard plains make them small clannhouses instead of clanhalls, and for an example
makes those like forts limited in time or so , but a long time and non siegable after one is taken.
Would say one month be a good period for such a thing, and would need to be quested or so.
There are some ideas here that seem very nice to me. Sadly, NC Korea won't listen to the population of 2 NC West servers when they think over next updates.
Personally I think there so be a clan leader battle tournament. The top clan leaders get the clans halls and the halls are disturbted by how a a clan ranks. If the leader suxs then the clan isnt good enough to own a clan hall, because the leader is suppose to be the representatiton of the clan.
Only problem with this idea is if one super power house guy and his 5 boxes have a clan enter it.
So there should be a few rules. And yes some alt clans might fall under this but such is life.
Clan must be atleast lvl 5. This is very fair. A clan who cant atleast have an academy shouldnt have a clan hall. Some will prolly say this is to low. I think the highest a clan should have to be is 9 though. Lvl 10 is sorta diffcult to acheive on some servers.
The clan must have atleast 40 members. People can of course put boxes in etc. So again very easy for ppl to do, but if a clan cant do atleast that shouldnt be able to compeite.
Clan Leader Battle Tournament is just one idea but idk it just seems fun in general lol =p.
Does it really matter what kind of method they use? NO!
Does it really matter what anyone suggests? NO!
Does it really matter when all the servers merge into one? NO!
Does anyone know what this merger signifies? Maybe a few!
No matter how its done the people who don't get a CH will be upset about it. So in the end it really doesn't matter how its done. The end is coming soon for alot of players but they don't want to face it. This probably includes myself, after 5 years on and off NcSoft will finaly make my mind up for me.
There are bots and bots. I personally couldnt care less about farmers, its sad but the game wouldnt survive without them anymore. Much worse are the 12yo kids that bot a toon to 85, throw in some shinies they got with daddys creditcard and then join pvp clans and start trashing all day (botting back the lost xp over night).
Anyway easiest solution would be to do it like in RoM..just make CHs instanced so whoever wants the Goddad one can get it as long as he can afford it~
I have seen alot of bots that camp mats and aa only (think how many adena farmers need aa????), maybe your server has alot of ebayers but not all servers are like that. Bots on some servers have signature of a real player farming for themselves not selling for profit. I mean think about this why do they need ancient adena if they are not buying a ton of S gems to make weapons and trust me i have tried to farm ancient adena in the catas and it is a major obstacle in this game, you dont have to sell aa to make alot of adena profit, it is possibly the dumbest way to farm adena and if you notice not whole lot of sellers, for farmers to make billions of adena this method you would have to see massive amount of aa selling which doesnt really occur in any server you have more buyers than sellers (so some of the aa "dissapears")...i dunno about you but on my server there is a whole lot of more weapons in possession of real pvp player hands all overenchanted ridiculously than there are shops of china farmers selling weapons.
So what makes you think its adena bots that will own the CH using exploit
Let me do the math for you S84 weapon requires 2020 S gems to SA...thats 200 million aa...if its all adena farmers doin that....why i have never seen an aa shop anywhere near that amount? maximum i have seen is 32 million aa shops and its not like everyone was fighting to get them...so that leads me to believe its surplus of a much larger stash used up to make a virtual item. Why would real life profiteers need to make so many virtual items aka they loose some from OE???
Seriously sometimes I think cheating is killing the game more, this is much worse than buying adena. This game already has more adena than items for years now. In 5 years it would be possible for even for a legit casual player to hit some kind of competitiveness if not for the cheating...only way NCsoft can correct this unfairness I think is when they ban bots also get the ip and take out their mains with that +10 icarus weapon
Where is anyone on the impression that legit people can afford 100 - 200 mil a month for a clan hall? I love to know where you hunt to get 1 mil every 10 minutes because Im 80+ and yet to find the imagery land where this happens lol
Especially for an archer who needs arrows ss and ghp to hunt lol
PS cost 3.5 mil a week for a clan hall if you owned one you would know that. 3.5 mil a week = 14 mil a month.
We have 4 bn and my old clan I created and took to level 9 legit took everything i had so I started naked 2nd of June. It is true some friends and new clannies helped, and some ppl from the old clan returned some things in spite of the junta that took over oposition. I made 2 bn+ in 4 months or less but it is true it was hard starting from almost 0, I only did it bcause I knew of the merger and was dreaming of a CH since first days of L2 in official (it was c3 back then IIRC).
Now I've been screwed, they changed the rules and I wont be able to get a CH after 4 months of a lot of efforts, but it is even better because now I use those money in trade and make 30 mil a day only from trading, and the market is really dead now before merger.
It is possible for legits to make money, that is why bots forced NCSoft to ban us from bidding, they thought they dont have enough advantages with the 3rd party programs which aref aster than any human bidder...
M
And make CH's instanced!
Im the kind of person who is against instancing of things. I know that the majority of players want that and NCsoft need to do it to attract new players. But to me its to WOW:ish. I like the drama that is born out of the competition of non-instanced resources.
Im the kind of person who is against instancing of things. I know that the majority of players want that and NCsoft need to do it to attract new players. But to me its to WOW:ish. I like the drama that is born out of the competition of non-instanced resources.
Totally agreed. The resources should be limited so the ownership of something should have a value. Even more so when the game is killed by bots every day and most places will be deserted again pretty soon after merger. In a few months time we will have more CHs than needed, but they will be taken by dead clans so it will look like theya re in short supply when in fact they are not.
I am really curious when the bots wil try again to twist the arm of GMs and make the last merger of US and UE servers, what will happen then ? Will they still do it even tho it was obvious before this kills the game much faster than bots are doing it every day ?
M
We have 4 bn and my old clan I created and took to level 9 legit took everything i had so I started naked 2nd of June. (...)
Now I've been screwed, they changed the rules and I wont be able to get a CH after 4 months of a lot of efforts,
Hmmm we have clan fully legit at very competitive server and I really would be pi_ss off if someone like you would steal CH (btw we have CH in Rune).
4 months?! com'n it is joke.
Don't cry that they change rules. All knew that that race who first bid 1 Adena would be script and connection war.
Tbh we were planning since Sace announce CH rule to bid all possible CH with our alt clans. We knew it is not fair but as we expect all clans where doing similar preparation.
So stop crying. 4 months is nothing.
Buy BJ and go PK few bots and drop it.
As I said in another topic, can you put all updates (if any) to first post ?
For example, as I understand we start play on new server with locked CH and it will be unlocked like in 1-2 month. So what will happen if we will have siege-type CH when you will give CH to top-clans ? Clans with siege-type CH will not receive town-type CH ? Or will receive it later when lost siege-type CH ? Or you will exchange siege-type for town-type CH ?
Im the kind of person who is against instancing of things. I know that the majority of players want that and NCsoft need to do it to attract new players. But to me its to WOW:ish. I like the drama that is born out of the competition of non-instanced resources.
+ 1 !!! Instance is no good ! :P WOW needs instances.. L2 dont need ...
We knew it is not fair but as we expect all clans where doing similar preparation. Funny when people try to justify their actions by saying everyone is doing it, sounds so childish. Obivously some of us out there arent followers and still gain rewards.
well, ncsoft! what about the ones that buy a ch for 2 bill they get there adena back?? if not u call that legit? is that there rules u have in game? u play legit gamemasters rulers and you do that? i think ncsoft u need think the essence of " legit "
Hmmm we have clan fully legit at very competitive server and I really would be pi_ss off if someone like you would steal CH (btw we have CH in Rune).
4 months?! com'n it is joke.
Don't cry that they change rules. All knew that that race who first bid 1 Adena would be script and connection war.
Tbh we were planning since Sace announce CH rule to bid all possible CH with our alt clans. We knew it is not fair but as we expect all clans where doing similar preparation.
So stop crying. 4 months is nothing.
Buy BJ and go PK few bots and drop it.
I know many ppl that claim to have legit clan, and they all turned out to have former bots inside or getting help from bots in holding castles and leveling their clan. You cant "become" legit, you must be one from start.
As for me stealing, playing by the rules is not stealing. What GMs do now is stealing, they help the bots in the competition when they already have a huge advantage because they can bid automatically. I really think they didnt need that help, since they have such big active and united clans there should have been no problem for them if the bid limit would have been raised or the CHs were bid some other way to avoid that bug. But yeah, why not get CHs for free, they would have needed to raise money and sell their gear, or even worse, to empty their pockets for a **** CH... Better now that it is free, all bots happy, unless their alt clan without wars for AFK exp wont get one and you will see then real tears, not a protest like mine over teh principles of GMs non-nterference and fairness.
M
COZ maomao u dont see the point here the real problem is ncsoft,how the hell its making those dessions to take clan halls back and not give a dam adena back to those ** bid and buy them? i dont see the (legit) in that....
COZ maomao u dont see the point here the real problem is ncsoft,how the hell its making those dessions to take clan halls back and not give a dam adena back to those ** bid and buy them? i dont see the (legit) in that....
Well, taht is a completely different matter. I think they should give back the 2 bn AND the right to bid for the clans that had CH and I think they will in some form. The problem is how will they decide who is worthy of CH and most important WHY they will do that. They can avoid the ppl cheating in bidding by blocking 3rd party tools,t hey can avoid ppl getting CHs just to sell for profit by lifting the limit or by holding hte auction some other way, their justification for handling out AUCTION CHs to bots is not holding water and it is illegal as they intervene directly in the game, bypassing it's rules, making judgements on arbitrary criteria. That should have not happened under any justification, not to mention such a shoddy one they threw out at the start of this thread.
As for me not getting CH, we didnt have one and I didnt really hope to beat the "skilled" automatic bidders, but being stripped of even a hipothetical chance that is really too much and i snaped, my apologies for some rants that shouldnt have happened. :(
M
and all that happends,coz ncsoft dont have a good fair plan for this! or even care! ncsoft its all about money, and we are just pwns in this, that we try play a game and profit wins us, but ncsoft sould never speak about a legit GAME. they not
A lot (if not most) clan halls were acquired when their servers began and have been held by the same clan the entire existence of the server. Those clan halls were obtained with their initial bid, often 50 million adena for an A grade hall, or a bit more.
Except, of course, for those servers that were previously merged (Aria,Sayha,Phoenix) ^^
On my server everything went for max 2b bid, except for some in Gludio.
Anyways, like others said, gonna be fun with everyone going for forts/contestable halls :D
2 onewingedwarrior : and what about all the others that bought ch for 2 bil? i see ch many times reroll on other clans in my server. Also, i don't get the combination of equipment and ch...i find it ridiculous to sell equipment in order to buy ch. I think u are out of subject..
Removed bickering. If you feel the need to iron out past differences or throw accusations back and forth for awhile, feel free to get in touch with each other outside of these boards.
Except, of course, for those servers that were previously merged (Aria,Sayha,Phoenix) ^^
On my server everything went for max 2b bid, except for some in Gludio.
Anyways, like others said, gonna be fun with everyone going for forts/contestable halls :D
gogo 5th October ><
Yes, some servers were not merged and SOME CHs were held by same clan from start, that goes for most legit clans which didnt have banned CL and such, but there were other clans that held CH from start too, even after the clan died, there were still enough adenas in cwh to hold the clan hall out of the circuit for years at those ridiculous rents, however MOST were sold for 2 bn, even in the servers that escaped merger till 5th of October.
In the EU side the merger wont be so problematic, all servers didnt have a merger till now, population will be lower than in the NA server, less clans will lose CH because less servers are merged, etc. But NA server is an extreme case and that is what i was talking aout in saying 5x40x2bn=400 bn. I know how the economy will go in EU server in two scenarios i think most likely to happen depending on how will the GMs handover the clans. One is they will give for free, the other is they will give for 2 bn which is almost free also. Both situations will elave some adena extra in the system, and if you apply the laws of economy you know what will happen, but only if you know the adena that is now available at least to some extent.
M
Yes, some servers were not merged and SOME CHs were held by same clan from start, that goes for most legit clans which didnt have banned CL and such, but there were other clans that held CH from start too, even after the clan died, there were still enough adenas in cwh to hold the clan hall out of the circuit for years at those ridiculous rents, however MOST were sold for 2 bn, even in the servers that escaped merger till 5th of October.
In the EU side the merger wont be so problematic, all servers didnt have a merger till now, population will be lower than in the NA server, less clans will lose CH because less servers are merged, etc. But NA server is an extreme case and that is what i was talking aout in saying 5x40x2bn=400 bn. I know how the economy will go in EU server in two scenarios i think most likely to happen depending on how will the GMs handover the clans. One is they will give for free, the other is they will give for 2 bn which is almost free also. Both situations will elave some adena extra in the system, and if you apply the laws of economy you know what will happen, but only if you know the adena that is now available at least to some extent.
M
Don't you understand that its not adena farmers from china that have the 3rd party programs ? and if NCsoft could stop them, you wouldn't have people with impossible amount of aa that you never ever seen on the market for sale to have their weapons. They need to do something that can stop this in a reasonable way for all clans, and leaving this in the open "as intended" will be so unfair to every clan that are not, lets say "proficient" at 3rd party programs.
Sure in the begining you can blame on commercial farmers but if you been playing for 5 years you can tell that last 3 years of this game, items don't go on the market for sale. ALOT of ancient adena mysteriously dissapear in bot hands....Doesn't take high tech detection methods to reverse FBI profile a crime to the real criminals.
Oh my God, just for info I'm playing in Lineage2 on Teon server already four years, playing time in L2 and forum reg. are not the same things,my dear.But if you didn't think so, means that I wasn't mistaken about you.So keep crying. And If yoг did't read my post until Sace edited that, I repeat I'm looking for you ingame nick and clan.Btw I'm already got 2 points on you,but it's just the beginning :)
PM me for details about my chars and place to come to get killed. You can do that after merger, I play in Franz so I dont know how you got those 2 PK points on me now, I wasnt killed in a long time (2 months i think, maybe more).
M
Moxie if i remember there was some infos about old clans with banned leaders..anything changed? can we have it with merge, or its delayed or what.
just asking here to not make another thread about it.:>
Where is anyone on the impression that legit people can afford 100 - 200 mil a month for a clan hall? I love to know where you hunt to get 1 mil every 10 minutes because Im 80+ and yet to find the imagery land where this happens lol
Legit doesn't mean NOOB. Sorry. If you are a NOOB it is not my job to teach you how and where to play.
Any legit person who has basic knowledge of the game and has the will to trade should be able to make 1bil/month from exping, manoring and trade in 6 months after start.
Especially for an archer who needs arrows ss and ghp to hunt lol
It is not my fault that you have chosen to play an archer, is it?
Who stops you from making 6 more toons on your account and make adena with them?
Good joke, got another one?
There are bots and bots. I personally couldnt care less about farmers, its sad but the game wouldnt survive without them anymore. Much worse are the 12yo kids that bot a toon to 85, throw in some shinies they got with daddys creditcard and then join pvp clans and start trashing all day (botting back the lost xp over night).
Anyway easiest solution would be to do it like in RoM..just make CHs instanced so whoever wants the Goddad one can get it as long as he can afford it~
Agreed on most things you said here but one.
I have personally seen a sell shop on teon with 1.6bil AA in it + 5000 S gems. I know who the owner is and believe me ... this is far from everything he has for sale. I would only mention the millions of manor crops he has for ... later usage.
Im the kind of person who is against instancing of things. I know that the majority of players want that and NCsoft need to do it to attract new players. But to me its to WOW:ish. I like the drama that is born out of the competition of non-instanced resources.
Totally agree! The instancing is going to kill this game. Nothing else is more destructive for the playing environment.
PM me for details about my chars and place to come to get killed. You can do that after merger, I play in Franz so I dont know how you got those 2 PK points on me now, I wasnt killed in a long time (2 months i think, maybe more).
M
I know many ppl that claim to have legit clan, and they all turned out to have former bots inside or getting help from bots in holding castles and leveling their clan. You cant "become" legit, you must be one from start.
Bots there, bots here, bots are everywhere .. Mao I have feeling that you are bot who just answer all around "you are bot" :)
In short our clan had many opportunities to prove that we are legit as much as we can verify that matter. And if we can reach our goals (like castle) is because we work hard... work hard but not 4 months, far more longer.
Take a look at Teon history and look for KJ. Clan existed since C3 and since C5 have stable position in Teon (not top ever :D )
Anyway even if we woudn't get CH I'm more calm recently. I'm pleased with NC approach much more then that stupid ride for bidding CH.
Legit doesn't mean NOOB. Sorry. If you are a NOOB it is not my job to teach you how and where to play.
Any legit person who has basic knowledge of the game and has the will to trade should be able to make 1bil/month from exping, manoring and trade in 6 months after start.
It is not my fault that you have chosen to play an archer, is it?
Who stops you from making 6 more toons on your account and make adena with them?
Agreed on most things you said here but one.
I have personally seen a sell shop on teon with 1.6bil AA in it + 5000 S gems. I know who the owner is and believe me ... this is far from everything he has for sale. I would only mention the millions of manor crops he has for ... later usage.
Totally agree! The instancing is going to kill this game. Nothing else is more destructive for the playing environment.
You call me a noob and you started months ago and I been here 7 years?
I have plenty of adena but there are other things that cost money then just clan hall a clan needs to support. Siege flags and TW/Sieges ~ 3 mil a week. Clan polearms for Aoeing 9 polearms S = 1.1 - 1.3 billion 9 S80 polearms = 2 billion easily.
Forts cost money to turn on all buffs and teleports thats about 2 mil a week and another 700k to sign up so another 3 mil a week.
Clan hall is already 3 mil a week.
So just upkeep costs a clan about 15 mil a month. If you up that to 80 mil a week or whatever other insane price you want to come up with then I would not be gearing up clan members and buying boss jewels we cannot farm but just paying to keep a clan hall.
FYI if the max you can pay for a clan hall is 2 billion (And that is never going to change because koreans want it that way) then 100 mil a week = more then you paid for the clan every 20 weeks. So to put this in real terms your talking
5.2 billion adena a year just for upkeep on a clan hall. 5.2 billion adena can outfit most of a clan in s80 .... not everyone bots or farms epics in top clans.
You call me a noob and you started months ago and I been here 7 years?
I have plenty of adena but there are other things that cost money then just clan hall a clan needs to support. Siege flags and TW/Sieges ~ 3 mil a week. Clan polearms for Aoeing 9 polearms S = 1.1 - 1.3 billion 9 S80 polearms = 2 billion easily.
Forts cost money to turn on all buffs and teleports thats about 2 mil a week and another 700k to sign up so another 3 mil a week.
Clan hall is already 3 mil a week.
So just upkeep costs a clan about 15 mil a month. If you up that to 80 mil a week or whatever other insane price you want to come up with then I would not be gearing up clan members and buying boss jewels we cannot farm but just paying to keep a clan hall.
FYI if the max you can pay for a clan hall is 2 billion (And that is never going to change because koreans want it that way) then 100 mil a week = more then you paid for the clan every 20 weeks. So to put this in real terms your talking
5.2 billion adena a year just for upkeep on a clan hall. 5.2 billion adena can outfit most of a clan in s80 .... not everyone bots or farms epics in top clans.
on these forums, the terms noob and clueless are often overused. in your case they apply.
5.2 billion adena a year just for upkeep on a clan hall. 5.2 billion adena can outfit most of a clan in s80 .... not everyone bots or farms epics in top clans.
The entire focus of L2 is...COMPETITION.
Some people say "play for fun". There are many things people can do IRL for fun...watch tv, play sports, go to a bar, play poker, video games, etc etc. The distinguishing factor of L2 is it offers a way to COMPETE with others. It is what drives people to play for long hours (and unfortunately it drives others to bot/ebay).
The clan hall bidding process is a competition. By design the top clans are the most competitive ones, and they can and should win this bidding process. L2 originally had clans with a basis of 40 members. Now a single unit has 40 members and clans should, by design, have 200 members. Let's say your clan is at 50% efficiency and has 100 members. If each member gives 1 mill then you have your $100 mill/week, 5.2 bill per week. THAT is how the game was meant to be played. An active clan can EASILY raise the money to pay for a clan hall without any ebay, botting and such.
Keep in mind there are many players with epics, 300 weapons, foundation items, +30 skills, each of which are worth many billions. If it is even the slightest bit of a struggle for an active clan to raise 100 mill/week, then clearly that clan is too small and should consider merging with other clans. You are trying to play the game in a way outside of the design, therefore you feel the pressure, the same way that a low level char finds it hard to xp on dark red mobs. Can they do it? Sure, but not efficiently.
Legit doesn't mean NOOB. Sorry. If you are a NOOB it is not my job to teach you how and where to play.
Any legit person who has basic knowledge of the game and has the will to trade should be able to make 1bil/month from exping, manoring and trade in 6 months after start.
After starting naked on 2nd of June I have now about 4 bn in ke and adena. But some friends and former clannies helped me a bit and I wasnt level 1...
It is possible to make lots of money, however AFK exp wont get you much income, in some cases you wont even break even... Forts get a lot of income, they are not money sink at all, unless you really dont have a clue.
I am really curious if GMs will ask for some money or they will handout CHs for free.
For a real auction the price should matter, nothing else. If they will give free that will be the culmination of the GMs breaking game rules.
M
Some people say "play for fun". There are many things people can do IRL for fun...watch tv, play sports, go to a bar, play poker, video games, etc etc. The distinguishing factor of L2 is it offers a way to COMPETE with others. It is what drives people to play for long hours (and unfortunately it drives others to bot/ebay).
The clan hall bidding process is a competition. By design the top clans are the most competitive ones, and they can and should win this bidding process. L2 originally had clans with a basis of 40 members. Now a single unit has 40 members and clans should, by design, have 200 members. Let's say your clan is at 50% efficiency and has 100 members. If each member gives 1 mill then you have your $100 mill/week, 5.2 bill per week. THAT is how the game was meant to be played. An active clan can EASILY raise the money to pay for a clan hall without any ebay, botting and such.
Keep in mind there are many players with epics, 300 weapons, foundation items, +30 skills, each of which are worth many billions. If it is even the slightest bit of a struggle for an active clan to raise 100 mill/week, then clearly that clan is too small and should consider merging with other clans. You are trying to play the game in a way outside of the design, therefore you feel the pressure, the same way that a low level char finds it hard to xp on dark red mobs. Can they do it? Sure, but not efficiently.
Just because this how you play the game doesn't mean that is how the game was designed to be played. L2 has changed many times over the past five years, its always changing and evolving. It's a game and can be played anyway people want to play it.
Yes many of the top clans take advantage of everything available in game and I don't blame them it makes sense. However alot of bad things have happened in the five plus years this game. This has helped some get ahead and also held some back. We have all seen character go from lvl 1 to 80+ in rediculasly unrealistic time frames on new servers and even on old servers. He'll on devianne a hole clan showed up out of knowere and within 3 months they were all top lvl and maxed out with oed everything. But the worst part was that they bragged about it and what the were doing on other Websites. So now your argument is that because they have more adena they shoulders get the clan hall, or that upkeep should be higher and cost more.
I would argue that top clans have the numbers the lvls the equipment and the support to take and keep castles, so they shouldn't be allowed to even get clann halls except for the ones you have to fight for. Now does that make sense for L2 as a hole? No not really but it sounds good. I would bet some people in here would agree, but I wouldn't agree to it because its basically unfare and discrimintes against players who have actually worked hard to get where they are in this game.
So basically saying that since there are players and clans that have billions in adena that the costs for everything should be 10x higher than they are, is like saying anyone who doesn't have an ingame net worth of #### should not be able to participate. Some may agree with that but its the same as what i suggested earlier and would not be fair.
I dought any of this would even be an issue if the history of L2 was different. There wouldn't be such a mistrust of anyone in game who amassed a small fortune. As it is now anytime someone says the have many billions of adena or AA or mats there is automatic suspicion of wrongdoing. Specially when they flaunt it, brag about it or seem irritated that everyone else in game are not multi billionares.
I hope this merge will make L2 better, but from the forums and ingame actions im not very confident this will turn out to be a good thing.
After starting naked on 2nd of June I have now about 4 bn in ke and adena. But some friends and former clannies helped me a bit and I wasnt level 1...
It is possible to make lots of money, however AFK exp wont get you much income, in some cases you wont even break even... Forts get a lot of income, they are not money sink at all, unless you really dont have a clue.
I am really curious if GMs will ask for some money or they will handout CHs for free.
For a real auction the price should matter, nothing else. If they will give free that will be the culmination of the GMs breaking game rules.
M
Dude... stop qqing seriously....
I agree with a lot of your points but it does not really matter how HARD you work and how much money you raise..... the truth is you DO NOT DESERVER a clan hall.......
you have a 10 ppl clan..... Having so many clans with 100+ members don't you think it is unfair that a clan like yours which has 10% of their members has the same shot at getting a clan hall as they do?
You are a Mediocre player on a Mediocre clan. If you have 10 players that means that you cannot do tiat, cannot do frint, cannot do freya, DEFINETLY do not fight for any pvp spot, and probably cannot even hold a fort if it gets contested...... So why in the world would your clan deserve a clan hall?? because your lame 10 members "worked hard" the past month????? Give me a break.......
I agree with a lot of your points but it does not really matter how HARD you work and how much money you raise..... the truth is you DO NOT DESERVER a clan hall.......
you have a 10 ppl clan..... Having so many clans with 100+ members don't you think it is unfair that a clan like yours which has 10% of their members has the same shot at getting a clan hall as they do?
You are a Mediocre player on a Mediocre clan. If you have 10 players that means that you cannot do tiat, cannot do frint, cannot do freya, DEFINETLY do not fight for any pvp spot, and probably cannot even hold a fort if it gets contested...... So why in the world would your clan deserve a clan hall?? because your lame 10 members "worked hard" the past month????? Give me a break.......
Almost every player in this game is mediocre without the support of a large clan. Pull anyone out a large clan and they will have a hard time off it in this game. Just because someone is part of a large clan or in one of the power clans does not make them elite players.
AS you have mentioned it takes alot to do the top raids in this game and many of us do not do them bcause we don't have the people or the write support. Oh well I still enjoy playing the game and should be able to participate in every aspect of the game which includes clan halls. It's up to me whether I win or fail but I still get to participate.
I bet most of the people who part of large or elite clans would have a different opinion of they suddenly found themselves without the support of that clan/alliance. Im sure we will see what happens after the merge and who comes out on top. Im sure of few of the people who are part of the "elite" now who loose power after the merge will be on here qqing themselve about how unfair something is.
Almost every player in this game is mediocre without the support of a large clan. Pull anyone out a large clan and they will have a hard time off it in this game. Just because someone is part of a large clan or in one of the power clans does not make them elite players.
AS you have mentioned it takes alot to do the top raids in this game and many of us do not do them bcause we don't have the people or the write support. Oh well I still enjoy playing the game and should be able to participate in every aspect of the game which includes clan halls. It's up to me whether I win or fail but I still get to participate.
I bet most of the people who part of large or elite clans would have a different opinion of they suddenly found themselves without the support of that clan/alliance. Im sure we will see what happens after the merge and who comes out on top. Im sure of few of the people who are part of the "elite" now who loose power after the merge will be on here qqing themselve about how unfair something is.
Besides the bad grammar....
Mediocre clans DO NOT GET to participate on TIAT.
Mediocre clans DO NOT GET to do TEZZA
Mediocre clans DO NOT GET to do any kind of epic or big bosses.
You say that everyone should have a fair chance at participating on everything but then again a 10 ppl clan is prevented from participating from this events by DEFAULT. Therefore I do not see it wrong that those same small clans who are not able to do any of that Participate on clan halls.....
I have an Average / boarderline mediocre clan. We do TIAT / Zaken and are trying for Tezza. My clan is fairly new (lvl 7). We have been here for 1 year and I have roughly 50 active members in clan.
We do a LOT of PVP. We have active wars with half our servers yet I reckon that comparing to the huge clans in the server, even the PVE clans, our clan is miles away, and those guys that are twice or 3 times as many as we are and have been here for a lot longer that we have deserve a way better chance at getting a CH.
I really do not care if you have a clan and they kicked you out or they left you with nothing or whatever other qq MAO wants to write. The fact of the matter is he has a VERY SMALL / VERY NEW clan. Therefore it would be unfair that because he worked hard for 2 weeks he has the same shot at getting a clan hall as a Clan that has been in the server since prelude and has 100+ members........
Mediocre clans DO NOT GET to do any kind of epic or big bosses.
You say that everyone should have a fair chance at participating on everything but then again a 10 ppl clan is prevented from participating from this events by DEFAULT. Therefore I do not see it wrong that those same small clans who are not able to do any of that Participate on clan halls.....
I have an Average / boarderline mediocre clan. We do TIAT / Zaken and are trying for Tezza. My clan is fairly new (lvl 7). We have been here for 1 year and I have roughly 50 active members in clan.
We do a LOT of PVP. We have active wars with half our servers yet I reckon that comparing to the huge clans in the server, even the PVE clans, our clan is miles away, and those guys that are twice or 3 times as many as we are and have been here for a lot longer that we have deserve a way better chance at getting a CH.
I really do not care if you have a clan and they kicked you out or they left you with nothing or whatever other qq MAO wants to write. The fact of the matter is he has a VERY SMALL / VERY NEW clan. Therefore it would be unfair that because he worked hard for 2 weeks he has the same shot at getting a clan hall as a Clan that has been in the server since prelude and has 100+ members........
That is my point.
Well we have done Tiat and Epics but we don't have members we do it with other legit clans.
I am the 2nd oldest Clan on Dev and legit. We have 30 - 40 active members maybe jump to 60 by the merge (lots of old people coming back for it) your saying we shouldn't get a clan hall? Which btw I have held since Rune first got clan halls 4 years ago. Most of the "Power" clans with the 100+ members did not exist since prelude so i have no clue where you ge that from... And I want you to list all the "power" clans that are around with the original clan leader?
I am sorry but I do not care if your level 13 and have 200+ members if you have botters in your clan and had clan members banned for botting then you shouldn't even be considered for a clan hall. PERIOD.
Well we have done Tiat and Epics but we don't have members we do it with other legit clans.
I am the 2nd oldest Clan on Dev and legit. We have 30 - 40 active members maybe jump to 60 by the merge (lots of old people coming back for it) your saying we shouldn't get a clan hall? Which btw I have held since Rune first got clan halls 4 years ago. Most of the "Power" clans with the 100+ members did not exist since prelude so i have no clue where you ge that from... And I want you to list all the "power" clans that are around with the original clan leader?
I am sorry but I do not care if your level 13 and have 200+ members if you have botters in your clan and had clan members banned for botting then you shouldn't even be considered for a clan hall. PERIOD.
so you were here a long time, you still need to say why they should bypass 100+ people and let you have it. By the way, the big clans will probably get more than 1 CH if they didnt do this. Even raising cap on bids would screw you.
I stated why... I held a clan hall since its inception with an active clan always. I didnt buy it for some obscene about of rl money which has happened over the last 4 years.
I do not allow botters in my clan no one in my clan has ever been banned for botting or hacking. But the unlegit clans who just bot and mass recruit deserve it more right?
Can't raise the caps for the same reason you can't make new clan halls because ITS NOT ALLOWED BY KOREA.
So Yea i would of took off work and try to buy a clan hall like i did last time. It worked last time and it would this time. All they had to do was one simple thing to allow current clan hall owners a fair chance and that was not allow a leader to bid without previously owning a clan hall.
Simple fastest previous clan hall owners become new clan hall owners. IT Would of been the only fair way to do it. Since banned clan leaders couldn't bid then it would take all the clan halls away from dead clans so if you didnt get a prime location clan hall you can still bid on a lower one.
The didn't listen to me and again it will be the legit person that loses out.
PS how many active clans are there with 100+ people mains. Only 2 on all of Dev maybe... Remember there is only 5000 players max in all NA.
If you minus the bots maybe 3000 people. 100+ people clans would = 30 clans total on all 5 servers or 6 per server... I doubt that many even exist maybe 2 - 3 per server so a total of maybe 15. Also how would they decide if a player is in 2 clans. Also what about buff slaves in an alt clan some people have 3 - 4 buff slaves. You put 10 people's buff slaves in a clan you could have 40 people "active" in a alt clan besides their mains.
I stated why... I held a clan hall since its inception with an active clan always. I didnt buy it for some obscene about of rl money which has happened over the last 4 years.
There in lies the problem i see, If you purchased a clan hall back in C1 for 50mil adena back in the day its big time money. The way the merger is happening your going to be reimbursed only what you paid for it. Purchase date should work into the equation of how much you get back for the CH IMO
I stated why... I held a clan hall since its inception with an active clan always. I didnt buy it for some obscene about of rl money which has happened over the last 4 years.
I do not allow botters in my clan no one in my clan has ever been banned for botting or hacking. But the unlegit clans who just bot and mass recruit deserve it more right?
Can't raise the caps for the same reason you can't make new clan halls because ITS NOT ALLOWED BY KOREA.
So Yea i would of took off work and try to buy a clan hall like i did last time. It worked last time and it would this time. All they had to do was one simple thing to allow current clan hall owners a fair chance and that was not allow a leader to bid without previously owning a clan hall.
Simple fastest previous clan hall owners become new clan hall owners. IT Would of been the only fair way to do it. Since banned clan leaders couldn't bid then it would take all the clan halls away from dead clans so if you didnt get a prime location clan hall you can still bid on a lower one.
The didn't listen to me and again it will be the legit person that loses out.
PS how many active clans are there with 100+ people mains. Only 2 on all of Dev maybe... Remember there is only 5000 players max in all NA.
If you minus the bots maybe 3000 people. 100+ people clans would = 30 clans total on all 5 servers or 6 per server... I doubt that many even exist maybe 2 - 3 per server so a total of maybe 15. Also how would they decide if a player is in 2 clans. Also what about buff slaves in an alt clan some people have 3 - 4 buff slaves. You put 10 people's buff slaves in a clan you could have 40 people "active" in a alt clan besides their mains.
other than you suggesting they should screw 100+ people who you accuse of being bots because you say so...you have some good ideas