Similar to the Power Shirt of yore, the Elemental Shirts are four separate items that can boost your stats and can each offer you different special skills when enchanted high enough. Try your luck at enchanting, but don't worry-- you won't lose your shirt! We are only offering Blessed Scroll: Enchant Elemental Shirt for these items, so if the enchantment fails you will still keep your shirt.
Explore the L2 Galleria to learn more about the four Elemental Shirts, the Blessed Scroll, and also the four packs of scrolls that just might give you a free +7 shirt if you're lucky!
Please use this thread only for all questions and discussion about Elemental Shirts. Enjoy!
what marph shirt+7 does?
Normal enchant scrolls are not in the game. This is to alleviate the frustration of losing your shirt if the enchantment fails.
Please check the L2 Galleria pages (click on a shirt on the promo page) for details on each shirt's stats per enchantment level.
NCSoft is going to make a ton of money off this little promotion, I already applied for an increase on my credit card limit.
On the summon a "portal to teleport you and your party", how often can you change the location?
The portal lasts where you spawn it for 5 minutes.
All right, really nice... but besides the shirts is there anyone working on expanding the class change service to dual class?
No, and that topic will not be discussed further here, as this thread is dedicated to shirt discussion only.
OK....i really like this...because i can afford to buy some.There are players in l2 who simply cant.This really is pay2 win now when poeple can buy crazy stats.Sure people can just buy adena from farmers and always have to get an edge but that was not ncsoft ever promoting that type of behaviour..
Making l2 truly FREE to play would be true if you didnt have to cash out money if you want the better stats.Cash shop should be strictly cosmetic items.
I am not complaining because i am butthurt over this..like i said i can afford it, i like what the product is and i will buy it..however unless players can get this through work in the game this game really is pay2win now and not truly free at all...and that is the best thing l2 and aion has going for them in this industry right now.
I knew when people started getting elemented vesper weapons in those packs that the cash shop would see items like this and its rather dissapointing.You solve the problem of poor players not being able to level by giving them shadow items all the way till 85 then a great set of free gear at 86... then you spit in their face by making them pay if they want content with an edge higher level?? going backwards here.
OK....i really like this...because i can afford to buy some.There are players in l2 who simply cant.This really is pay2 win now when poeple can buy crazy stats.Sure people can just buy adena from farmers and always have to get an edge but that was not ncsoft ever promoting that type of behaviour..
Making l2 truly FREE to play would be true if you didnt have to cash out money if you want the better stats.Cash shop should be strictly cosmetic items.
I am not complaining because i am butthurt over this..like i said i can afford it, i like what the product is and i will buy it..however unless players can get this through work in the game this game really is pay2win now and not truly free at all...and that is the best thing l2 and aion has going for them in this industry right now.
I knew when people started getting elemented vesper weapons in those packs that the cash shop would see items like this and its rather dissapointing.You solve the problem of poor players not being able to level by giving them shadow items all the way till 85 then a great set of free gear at 86... then you spit in their face by making them pay if they want content with an edge higher level?? going backwards here.
Poor people shouldn't be playing games... they should be working to not be poor.
how is this pay 2 win??? look at the stats you get for enchanting them!!!!
Stats, I was just getting them for the colors and pictures?
Poor people shouldn't be playing games... they should be working to not be poor.
Stats, I was just getting them for the colors and pictures?
thats your reply? honestly? poor people shouldnt be playing games???
LOL.
Im sorry the fun is only for rich people in life.Next time i want fun i will ask your permission.
thats your reply? honestly? poor people shouldnt be playing games???
LOL.
Im sorry the fun is only for rich people in life.Next time i want fun i will ask your permission.
thats your reply? honestly? poor people shouldnt be playing games???
LOL.
Im sorry the fun is only for rich people in life.Next time i want fun i will ask your permission.
Don't be silly, I am not giving or taking away anyone's permission to play anything. However, if you complain you can't afford the items in a game you shouldn't be playing the game. I can't afford a horse, horse trainers, Polo Club fees and the cost of transporting all the Polo required items... so I don't play Polo. I sure don't go on the Polo forums complaining about how some are buying better equipment and well bred horses.
Don't be silly, I am not giving or taking away anyone's permission to play anything. However, if you complain you can't afford the items in a game you shouldn't be playing the game. I can't afford a horse, horse trainers, Polo Club fees and the cost of transporting all the Polo required items... so I don't play Polo. I sure don't go on the Polo forums complaining about the how some are buying better equipment and well bred horses.
Look i like these items and i will buy it...but unless players can get it in game without money.This is pay2win.Its a slap in their face completely...make it hard for them to achieve, SURE.But its impossible to get unless you buy it with real money this is essentially locking away content from people who dont pay and it takes the word FREE right out of their amazing truly free model and like i said its all aion and l2 has going for itself right now within the industry in the west because it really is a brilliant model IF they dont start doing stuff like this.
some people dont care about money in life there is more important things than being rich.doesnt mean they cant play l2 aswell when its advertised as truly free :)
people in l2 will pay money for purely cosmetic fluff items if the items are GOOD and worth the money.There is no need for this.
Enhanced level of success / total number of probability
+3 → +4 55/100 55%
+4 → +5 34/100 34%
+5 → +6 27/100 27%
+6 → +7 25/100 25%
+7 → +8 9/100 9%
+8 → +9 9/100 9%
+9 → +10 1/100 1%
at +7 u get lvl1 skills and at +9 lvl2
Eva:
Skill effects: to restore itself HP20% / MP20 / CP30%
HP30% / MP30% / CP50%
Pa'agrio:
Skills results: the lifting of the abnormal state of the body, and in 5/10 seconds to render the invincible state.
can not remove: fear/paralyse/hell binding etc.
Maphr:
Skills results: weapons and armor to strengthen the chances of success increase 10/15%.
Special Note: applies only to strengthen the D / C / B / A / S / S80 / R / R95 / R99 items.
Strengthen the conditions for success / total number of probability
General condition of 101/20 050 5%
Auxiliary stone 113/200 56. 5%
+7 Maphr shirt 104/200 52%
+9 Maphr shirt 108/200 54%
+7 Maphr shirt + auxiliary stone 118/200 59%
didn't bother with the Teleport shirt cause only weirdo's will try that one imo..
Cooling time: 30 minutes
Special Note: Olympia competition can also be used.
Thanks Sace.
It works on weapons, armor, and jewelry that are D-R99-Grade. No-Grade items do not apply.
1.) Does the Pa'agrio Shirt's invincibility cancel if you use ANY skill, (even buffing or healing) like other invincibility skills?
2.) Also, what is the "small" chance to get a bonus +7 shirt for buying the 30-pack of blessed scrolls?
3.) Does the chance to successfully enchant the Elemental Shirt fall as you go higher, like the Power Shirt did?
Thanks, I just want to know the odds, before I decide to gamble $52.50 on this. . .
---
~Rj
=)
1. It does not cancel if you use any skills. You can buff and attack while using invincibility, but you cannot heal yourself.
Don't be silly, I am not giving or taking away anyone's permission to play anything. However, if you complain you can't afford the items in a game you shouldn't be playing the game. I can't afford a horse, horse trainers, Polo Club fees and the cost of transporting all the Polo required items... so I don't play Polo. I sure don't go on the Polo forums complaining about how some are buying better equipment and well bred horses.
The problem with your logic is that polo (or specifically, the clubs/grounds where you'd presumably play polo) doesn't advertise itself as "Truly Free." There's reasonable expectation that in order to compete in polo, you would naturally need to purchase a horse, trainers, etc. This is one of the main reasons why soccer (football) and basketball are very popular around the world while sports like polo are relatively niche and contained within the most developed nations.
With the way that Lineage 2 works, in order to compete, you are required to buy these items as well, despite the game being advertised as "Truly Free." They are literally selling competitive advantage that you will have to purchase in order to compete on a reasonably equal level as those who do purchase these items.
NCSoft tries to justify adding these items to the game by saying that they don't make the game imbalanced "much" or (even more ridiculously) that their "popularity" (presumably determined by sales) suggests that the items don't create imbalances.
Don't be silly by trying to argue that they're not selling competitive advantage here. They are and have been operating on a pay-to-win model since Free to Play started. The only reason why they keep dancing around admitting it is because they realize that doing so would only confirm the suspicions of everyone concerned about it, turning the trickling of players out of the game with every new pay-to-win item release into a dam-bursting hemorrhage.
The problem with your logic is that polo (or specifically, the clubs/grounds where you'd presumably play polo) doesn't advertise itself as "Truly Free." There's reasonable expectation that in order to compete in polo, you would naturally need to purchase a horse, trainers, etc. This is one of the main reasons why soccer (football) and basketball are very popular around the world while sports like polo are relatively niche and contained within the most developed nations.
With the way that Lineage 2 works, in order to compete, you are required to buy these items, as well, despite the game being advertised as "Truly Free." They are literally selling competitive advantage that you will have to purchase in order to compete on a reasonably equal level as those who do purchase these items.
NCSoft tries to justify adding these items to the game by saying that they don't make the game imbalanced "much" or (even more ridiculously) that their "popularity" (presumably determined by sales) suggests that the items don't create imbalances.
Don't be silly by trying to argue that they're not selling competitive advantage here. They are and have been operating on a pay-to-win model since Free to Play started.
But, this game IS free to play...now nooone is making you use your money to buy items ingame to give you the advantage in PVP....i believe with what the game offers you FREELY you can still play the PVE part of the game with no issues. Noone is forcing you to buy anything...I dont understand what the issue is.
Okay… my bad. Let’s use soccer, anyone can play soccer for free in their backyard, they can be pretty good even. To be the best you will have to spend some money on training, the best gear, health products and transporting to events to play others (so you can get better). So with any game you can play for free or you can spend a few to be better… it is life as we know it so stop all the QQ. NOTHING IS FREE.
But, this game IS free to play...now nooone is making you use your money to buy items ingame to give you the advantage in PVP....i believe with what the game offers you FREELY you can still play the PVE part of the game with no issues. Noone is forcing you to buy anything...I dont understand what the issue is.
This is not great logic in a game where anybody can kill you...give those players the ability to not engage in any pvp activity and just enjoy the pve and you have a point but the people buying this can kill you freely.
Okay… my bad. Let’s use soccer, anyone can play soccer for free in their backyard, they can be pretty good even. To be the best you will have to spend some money on training, the best gear, health products and transporting to events to play others (so you can get better). So with any game you can play for free or you can spend a few to be better… it is life as we know it so stop all the QQ. NOTHING IS FREE.
Unfortunately, you're not even right about that lol.
Otherwise, all professional athletes would have to come from wealthy backgrounds, as being wealthy would be the only way to make it to the professional stage. And we all know that's not the case, especially in sports where the barrier to entry is low (soccer, basketball).
Also, note how you went from arguing that this isn't Pay-to-Win to freely admitting that it is. You're at least better than NCSoft in that regards lol.
And get off your "it's life, get used to it" mantra that you spout everywhere. This is a game that depends on players to support it - players who won't continue to be there if they're constantly ignored and/or treated poorly (customer service as a means of retaining customers as a means of keeping the company in the black?! No way that's not also part of modern "life," is it?). Get your head out of NCSoft's *** and rationalize the situation rather than spitting out your tired rhetoric day in and day out.
But, this game IS free to play...now nooone is making you use your money to buy items ingame to give you the advantage in PVP....i believe with what the game offers you FREELY you can still play the PVE part of the game with no issues. Noone is forcing you to buy anything...I dont understand what the issue is.
Not in this game, where the goal of 99% of everything in the game is to be used towards competition (ultimately in the form of PvP).
Even hats, which were formerly only useful for their aesthetic properties, have been turned into mechanisms that benefit competition (PvP).
In short, to play Lineage 2 is to compete in some form, whether it's actively pursuing items that can only be obtained through raids, or simply trying to PvE without getting ganked by those with stronger items.
The company has to make money to survive, and selling these optional items is currently how they do it. If they give an advantage, small or not, it is their decision to make. The people who cannot afford these items can play casually, or do the best they can with the items obtainable in-game.
Besides, even with the extra stats, the game still focuses on teamwork, experience, and skill. If you know all your skills inside and out, including when to use them, you can beat others with higher gear that are not as skillful...
That being said, I do believe that all buy-able items SHOULD be freely obtainable somehow in the game, even if they are extremely obscure or difficult.
---
~Rj
=)
The company has to make money to survive, and selling these optional items is currently how they do it. If they give an advantage, small or not, it is their decision to make. The people who cannot afford these items can play casually, or do the best they can with the items obtainable in-game.
Besides, even with the extra stats, the game still focuses on teamwork, experience, and skill. If you know all your skills inside and out, including when to use them, you can beat others with higher gear that are not as skillful...
That being said, I do believe that all buy-able items SHOULD be freely obtainable somehow in the game, even if they are extremely obscure or difficult.
---
~Rj
=)
exactly...give the players who cant afford it a chance to get it by playing the game even if extremely hard and you solve the problem..as it stands its impossible for them to get it.
The +0 shirt is sold separately than the 30-pack of scrolls.
- Buy the 30-pack of Scrolls for $37.50.
* Chance to receive a +7 Shirt (Very low chance, obviously)
- Buy the shirt for $15
It's listed right there in the description page in the Galleria. You are buying scrolls only in that 30-pack. (For buying 30 instead of 1 or several at a time, you have a chance of getting a free shirt)
The company has to make money to survive, and selling these optional items is currently how they do it. If they give an advantage, small or not, it is their decision to make. The people who cannot afford these items can play casually, or do the best they can with the items obtainable in-game.
Sure, but making decisions that drive free players away from the game, which leads to even the pay-to-win players leaving eventually due to boredom, is not a model that really works.
I mean, look at the way the company handles cheating (or more accurately, *doesn't* handle cheating). It's caused mass exoduses of players before and continued to be handled the same way until there weren't enough players to fill even 2 servers, leading to a complete overhaul of the game (Free to Play). It's a pattern of NCSoft policy destroying the game population until there's nothing left, being forced to "reinvent" themselves, then policy once again destroying the game population.
Besides, even with the extra stats, the game still focuses on teamwork, experience, and skill. If you know all your skills inside and out, including when to use them, you can beat others with higher gear that are not as skillful...
Not in Olympiad, where the shirts are also useable. And not when entire clans/groups with these shirts start showing up (gotta pay-to-stay-competitive!).
And let's be honest here - whatever miniscule amount of "skill" this game takes to play is relegated to being pointless when programs that are built specifically to remove whatever minor advantage that skill might benefit your enemies are hardly policed and abundantly employed by entire clans.
My Point being is noone makes you pvp, noone make you buy this stuff to try and compete in pvp. You can PVE just fine without this product or others that are sold. Many people play this game for the pure PVE aspect of lineage2 and they arent QQn over whats being sold. So Its a FREE GAME to those that chose to keep it a free to play game. Besides, buying these iteams are not going to make you great at PVP, maybe a slight edge at the most. I would say a good majority of the hardcore pvp'rs that do buy these items to get the edge in this game cheat anyways...IE programs to spam CP/HP pots, auto target and buy adena to get top gear....so why even try to pvp them...its pointless. I play L2 for the people and the parties and to take my mind off a long day... to relax, if pvp happens and I win or die..who cares. Just play and have as much fun as you can and dont get to emotional over this game....some day its going to be gone and alot of people are going to look back at it and say....."Boy those were the days" and others are going to say "I hated that game".;)
I would love for you to break down exactly how this is play to win... which of these four active skills is going to make any one overpowered.
Removing a debuff in enchanter CB Olympiad= U win. So yea, it's pay2win
So do these shirts have the same OE rate as power shirts? If that's the case then I won't have to worry, because like 4 people got a +7 last time, and like 1 dude got a +8. Not for nothing, you you guys are becoming like drug dealers hanging out @ the school yard.
My Point being is noone makes you pvp, noone make you buy this stuff to try and compete in pvp. You can PVE just fine without this product or others that are sold. Many people play this game for the pure PVE aspect of lineage2 and they arent QQn over whats being sold. So Its a FREE GAME to those that chose to keep it a free to play game. Besides, buying these iteams are not going to make you great at PVP, maybe a slight edge at the most. I would say a good majority of the hardcore pvp'rs that do buy these items to get the edge in this game cheat anyways...IE programs to spam CP/HP pots, auto target and buy adena to get top gear....so why even try to pvp them...its pointless. I play L2 for the people and the parties and to take my mind off a long day... to relax, if pvp happens and I win or die..who cares. Just play and have as much fun as you can and dont get to emotional over this game....some day its going to be gone and alot of people are going to look back at it and say....."Boy those were the days" and others are going to say "I hated that game".;)
no one makes you pvp???? are you even playing the same game?? If i want to pvp some carebear what is stopping me??? their bsoe that i am going to stun them out of using? going red? you think i care to go red? in l2 people can force you to pvp.....all because you wont hit back doesnt mean you dont die to pvp
no one makes you pvp???? are you even playing the same game?? If i want to pvp some carebear what is stopping me??? their bsoe that i am going to stun them out of using? going red? you think i care to go red? in l2 people can force you to pvp.....all because you wont hit back doesnt mean you dont die to pvp
So what if you die... you can lay on the ground knowing no one forced you to pay for anything or PVP someone that did.
Unfortunately, you're not even right about that lol.
Otherwise, all professional athletes would have to come from wealthy backgrounds, as being wealthy would be the only way to make it to the professional stage. And we all know that's not the case, especially in sports where the barrier to entry is low (soccer, basketball).
Also, note how you went from arguing that this isn't Pay-to-Win to freely admitting that it is. You're at least better than NCSoft in that regards lol.
And get off your "it's life, get used to it" mantra that you spout everywhere. This is a game that depends on players to support it - players who won't continue to be there if they're constantly ignored and/or treated poorly (customer service as a means of retaining customers as a means of keeping the company in the black?! No way that's not also part of modern "life," is it?). Get your head out of NCSoft's *** and rationalize the situation rather than spitting out your tired rhetoric day in and day out.
Almost missed this... every professional athlete has received funds to better their training, gear, health and transportation. Who is being naive now, the athlete doesn't have to be born rich but someone has the money needed? Name one Pro or Collegiate athlete which achieved some accolade without any funds spent to enhance their natural abilities.
This game is not a safe playground were everyone is fair and the rich kid doesn't laugh at your old shoes. As in life you have to pay to win, you can always play for free.
no one makes you pvp???? are you even playing the same game?? If i want to pvp some carebear what is stopping me??? their bsoe that i am going to stun them out of using? going red? you think i care to go red? in l2 people can force you to pvp.....all because you wont hit back doesnt mean you dont die to pvp
??? Seriously.....thats what you come back with. Noone makes me PVP, daily I get clowns in Bloody Swamp that attack me for no reason....I dont care....cause 9 out of 10 times its a kid looking for attention because mommy and daddy didnt care enough and I then I always think about my pic on this forum sig LOL! Besides, its not PVP if someone just kills me and I dont attack back...that sir is a pk and with this being a free game I dont really care because I will always get that xp back.
The way I see it, your neighbor has a bigger house and a BMW. You have a little bit smaller house and drive a Prius(I loled). The fact is He has more money then you do, or he manages it better whatever the difference. The fact is nothing in life is equal, if you want to have the best you have to spend more to get it. In this case you can play for free, spend money here and there or you can spend a lot and have more advantages. Nothing in life is fair, if you think it should be then you are living under a rock.
you know i can handle ncsoft making bad decisions to try make money but the fact that some of the player base support this is very bad.
This game has no future now and that is why it upsets me.The server population is already dwindling again to the point where they will probably merge magmeld and barts soon.With all the spammers and automated characters all over like locusts, people are leaving and stuff like this will just make more leave.
Before Goddess nobody would dare use 3rd party software, maybe only ranger for pvp but it was because they were going to get banned if they tried.Gms started giving free buffs and so many events to try please a very disgruntled fan base that put up with crap for many years ...i knew it would be short lived.
I know talking about stuff i mentioned is off topic but pay2win is just another nail in this games coffin. So please continue to support it and buy your stats so you eventually lose your toon to servers shutting down.
Its like I said before....Just play and have as much fun as you can before its all over, dont get worked up over the pettiness (sp) of this game. If you want to spend RL cash to get an edge then do it, if dont...then dont do it! I for one do spend some RL cash for certain items because....well, because I can!:p
My Point being is noone makes you pvp, noone make you buy this stuff to try and compete in pvp. You can PVE just fine without this product or others that are sold. Many people play this game for the pure PVE aspect of lineage2 and they arent QQn over whats being sold. So Its a FREE GAME to those that chose to keep it a free to play game. Besides, buying these iteams are not going to make you great at PVP, maybe a slight edge at the most. I would say a good majority of the hardcore pvp'rs that do buy these items to get the edge in this game cheat anyways...IE programs to spam CP/HP pots, auto target and buy adena to get top gear....so why even try to pvp them...its pointless. I play L2 for the people and the parties and to take my mind off a long day... to relax, if pvp happens and I win or die..who cares. Just play and have as much fun as you can and dont get to emotional over this game....some day its going to be gone and alot of people are going to look back at it and say....."Boy those were the days" and others are going to say "I hated that game".;)
Realy ? i play this game for fun too, and to take my mind off a long day, but getting exp or PVE is not fun for me, this is a good game for the PVP part and when they were selling this game as PTP, which they sold was a PVP or competitive game. Now u know, u have to pay to win, and said u know, not that u must pay to win, and if u dont play to win which is a better definition (that free to play, LOL) u have a clear disadvantage over the rest and that's not funny, that's why people leave the game and it will continue doing it.
You cant play COC because some bots have thousands of draco pots and now that stuff, same for olympiad, 10 seconds of total invicibility is too much overpowered LOL. Remember that before the first birthday of this pay to win model they will need merge the servers.
Clearly there is disagreement over how players choose to play the game and spend their NCoin (or opt out entirely). Continued fighting is not constructive, just as real-life comparisons to in-game systems are never perfect. Please try to keep discussion in this thread specific to the Shirts only. Further posts of fighting and extensive disagreements will be removed.
Clearly there is disagreement over how players choose to pay the game and spend their NCoin (or opt out entirely). Continued fighting is not constructive, just as real-life comparisons to in-game systems are never perfect. Please try to keep discussion in this thread specific to the Shirts only. Further posts of fighting and extensive disagreements will be removed.
My shirt is better then yours :cool:
Clearly there is disagreement over how players choose to pay the game and spend their NCoin (or opt out entirely). Continued fighting is not constructive, just as real-life comparisons to in-game systems are never perfect. Please try to keep discussion in this thread specific to the Shirts only. Further posts of fighting and extensive disagreements will be removed.
Oh yes always people who are upset because the L2 store has something they can't afford and now they feel it's unfair for them.
Here's how I look at it. I don't worry about what the next guy has because I know I can't possibly keep up with that. I choose not to blow my pay checks like a 13 year old kid on a silly game. You have to know when to draw the line. $15 isn't a bad option if you want a shirt and be thrifty about it and buy some scrolls later. You don't need these shirts to PvE I agree, If you're hardcore PvP then maybe this is your investment item of the month,but otherwise don't bother getting all bent out of shape. Bots don't spend money on this game, they MAKE money off it. I do buy things from NC to support the game and it has nothing to do with being poor, it's called self control and enough sense to have a budget.
Think about why you want the shirt if you have a tight budget. Know the difference between impulse purchase and a real use for it when you have it. After I read up on the item and thought it over I really don't need it.
Look i like these items and i will buy it...but unless players can get it in game without money.This is pay2win.Its a slap in their face completely...make it hard for them to achieve, SURE.But its impossible to get unless you buy it with real money this is essentially locking away content from people who dont pay and it takes the word FREE right out of their amazing truly free model and like i said its all aion and l2 has going for itself right now within the industry in the west because it really is a brilliant model IF they dont start doing stuff like this.
some people dont care about money in life there is more important things than being rich.doesnt mean they cant play l2 aswell when its advertised as truly free :)
people in l2 will pay money for purely cosmetic fluff items if the items are GOOD and worth the money.There is no need for this.
If noone ever pays for anything, the servers will be brought down forever.
I think all these shirts are a good thing because it gives people who lose something to blame it on, whether it's true or not.
HA! Right? Someone already tried to say bots gain from this item. That's funny because I've never known bots to actually want to BUY items from a company they are making money off.
well, this shirt is really nice, but i remember what happened with the power shirt, few people could get it to +8, so i think wont be different now.
the difference is: power shirt was 800ncoins (if i remember well), you could buy normal scroll for make +3 and blessed scroll were 100ncoins (i think, this i really cant remember). so if you are lucky, with 1100ncoins you had your shirt+6.
now is different, 1200ncoins for shirt, 100each blessed, but u need them also for make +3. = 1800ncoins for a +6.
is a difference of 700 coins, so like 8/9$ if you are so lucky to get +6 at first try. if no, every try you need to spend 600ncoins.
all this for say, beside few people that can afford all those money for try a +8 or w/e, other will stop at +5/+6 and not try +6 more then 1 time.
I've a power shirt +5 (failed 2 times for +6 so is ok +5), and to be honest, i dont see the big 'problem' this shirt can give.... +2con and +2men ..... wow....
even a +7 wont be so dangerous imo.... im more scared of people that botting get their weapon +16 (and no, i dont talk about the scroll we had in l2 store few time ago) or their gear +10.
at least for a shirt they will spend money and not bot cos they are more 'smart' then legit players.
back again to the shirt, ncsoft made the game free to play, this means they need to get money somehow, they cant survive hoping to sell hats in l2store or runes.
Yes i can buy one hat cos is cute but stop, i can buy 2, but i wont buy every week a stupid hat. I can buy rune and vit potions, but this too, i cant buy them all days, 1 vit potions+rune 50% = 240ncoins, i can do sometimes if im near to lvl up, and also not all people are interested in buy them, so their only chance is put something that people will buy and at same time will make them get some money.
Their interest is make money, not make the game '''''fair'''' for all, they will not say 'oh someone maybe dont have money for buy this, so no we wont sell it'.
HA! Right? Someone already tried to say bots gain from this item. That's funny because I've never known bots to actually want to BUY items from a company they are making money off.
u'r so naive)) a lot of bots works hard for theirs high lvl masters)) but it's good live in a fairy tale ;)
I don't understand only one thing why do items that usable on Oly :confused:
u'r so naive)) a lot of bots works hard for theirs high lvl masters)) but it's good live in a fairy tale ;)
It's called I worry about myself and play the game for my enjoyment and not stressing out over which toons are cheating and who bought what. If I did I should probably quit the game.
Clearly there is disagreement over how players choose to pay the game and spend their NCoin (or opt out entirely). Continued fighting is not constructive, just as real-life comparisons to in-game systems are never perfect. Please try to keep discussion in this thread specific to the Shirts only. Further posts of fighting and extensive disagreements will be removed.
OK fair enough, then let's talk about the shirts. I spend plenty of money on NCCoin, and so do most of the people in my clan, but I have to tell you that this is getting old. You guys know what you're doing when you introduce this stuff, just like you removed the regular enchants not out of the kindness of your heart, but rather to force people to pay for that many more enchants. NCSoft is free to charge as they will, but in my personal opinion you're eventually going to harm your own business like this. It would make sense if more of the population was 99, but there are only a handful per server that are there yet. You could have easily enough concentrated on the xp items for now, and the sub bracelets, and introduced gear stuff later. Now when I say you, I don't mean you personally, but rather the company you work for.
Instead of putting useless itens like t-shirt for kids like 1Peri1, ncsoft should've put some useful itens, like 200% rune for 1k ncoins for lvl 86+..
Maybe people would enjoy leveling fast and enjoy a decent PVP game.
I dont care for p2w kids, buying useless itens to feel E-cool, but b2w kids are killing (killed?) this game, and some good boost XP itens would help a lot people that still 'play' l2.
OK fair enough, then let's talk about the shirts. I spend plenty of money on NCCoin, and so do most of the people in my clan, but I have to tell you that this is getting old. You guys know what you're doing when you introduce this stuff, just like you removed the regular enchants not out of the kindness of your heart, but rather to force people to pay for that many more enchants. NCSoft is free to charge as they will, but in my personal opinion you're eventually going to harm your own business like this. It would make sense if more of the population was 99, but there are only a handful per server that are there yet. You could have easily enough concentrated on the xp items for now, and the sub bracelets, and introduced gear stuff later. Now when I say you, I don't mean you personally, but rather the company you work for.
I think the shirts are minor compared to what could be in the store,but I do see your point also.
Almost missed this... every professional athlete has received funds to better their training, gear, health and transportation. Who is being naive now, the athlete doesn't have to be born rich but someone has the money needed? Name one Pro or Collegiate athlete which achieved some accolade without any funds spent to enhance their natural abilities.
You're still not understanding.
Lebron James is a basketball player who was born into very modest beginnings. Why is it that, despite those modest beginnings, he was already a better basketball player than most NBA players when he was forced into going pro (due to the NCAA wanting to basically make an example out of a rather innocent mistake).
Did he get better after going pro? Of course, but that wasn't in question. The simple fact that he was already better than most NBA players at the time of his draft shows that money is not required to become competitive.
The problem is, in the context of this game (the competition in Lineage 2), where there are fewer factors that determine success (player skill and strategy never did influence much; it was largely a function of how much time was spent playing the game relative to your opponent(s) until cheating is factored in), paying to win creates imbalances that can only be compensated by paying as much as your opponents are paying in order to win.
This game is not a safe playground were everyone is fair and the rich kid doesn't laugh at your old shoes. As in life you have to pay to win, you can always play for free.
And "playing for free" as it is is no longer playing the game as it's intended - with competition in mind. There is no purpose to playing Lineage 2 without competition, as competition is integral to its core enjoyment.
So what if you die... you can lay on the ground knowing no one forced you to pay for anything or PVP someone that did.
This is what you wrote in another thread. So, your advice is that if you don't want to pay to win, you essentially are left to "lay on the ground," which is in effect, not playing.
Thus, you've again proven how this game and shirt are, in fact, following a pay-to-win model, which was a direct contradiction with your earlier arguments that this wasn't a pay-to-win game, and the point of our discussion.
OK fair enough, then let's talk about the shirts. I spend plenty of money on NCCoin, and so do most of the people in my clan, but I have to tell you that this is getting old. You guys know what you're doing when you introduce this stuff, just like you removed the regular enchants not out of the kindness of your heart, but rather to force people to pay for that many more enchants. NCSoft is free to charge as they will, but in my personal opinion you're eventually going to harm your own business like this. It would make sense if more of the population was 99, but there are only a handful per server that are there yet. You could have easily enough concentrated on the xp items for now, and the sub bracelets, and introduced gear stuff later. Now when I say you, I don't mean you personally, but rather the company you work for.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
Seriously, does anyone have that YouTube (or whatever) about how Pay-to-Win models don't work in the long run? I've been looking for it off-and-on for a while now.
that isnt the right answer cuz i know how that works ;p
look i am a aeore healer when i use Celestial after the duration i get a debuff wich prevents me form casting another Celestial skills
1: i cast party celestial protection
2: after 10 seconds duration i get debuff (wich prevents me form casting another celestial spell)
3: debuff last 1 minute
(this is the question) 4: while i have that debuff wich prevents form casting another celestial skills can i still use the shirt invincibillity?
Power of Pa'agrio can still be used even when you have the 1 minute Lingering Protection debuff that prevents you from casting another celestial spell.
The way I see it, your neighbor has a bigger house and a BMW. You have a little bit smaller house and drive a Prius(I loled). The fact is He has more money then you do, or he manages it better whatever the difference. The fact is nothing in life is equal, if you want to have the best you have to spend more to get it. In this case you can play for free, spend money here and there or you can spend a lot and have more advantages. Nothing in life is fair, if you think it should be then you are living under a rock.
The issue with that is, unlike real life (in most cases), people will eventually move on from this game if they feel that they can't compete.
The vast majority of the game is built around competition, and that's why most people play this game - competition is the "fun" of the game. And most people don't stick around playing a game that they're not having fun playing.
Without enough people playing, even those who are willing to pay to win will lose interest and leave.
OK, Here is my FRUSTATING history in-game trying to OE my elemmental shirt:
- 38 Blessed Scrolls used
- 6000 NCCoin purchased (~US$62,75)
- Maximum successfull enchantment achieved: +5
- Current status: Shirt+0
So, I used 38 Blessed scrolls, expent US$63,00 to have a +0 shirt.
Very nice !!!
This shirt is only usefull if is +7 at least. The bonuses for less enchant is NOTHING.
I´d recommend NCSoft developers to review this point.
I´m very disapointed and frustated to being treated like a fool. It´s not fair !
Please take it in consideration.
Guys, be aware that the chances are very low and it´s almost impossible to reach +7.
OK, Here is my FRUSTATING history in-game trying to OE my elemmental shirt:
- 38 Blessed Scrolls used
- 6000 NCCoin purchased (~US$62,75)
- Maximum successfull enchantment achieved: +5
- Current status: Shirt+0
So, I used 38 Blessed scrolls, expent US$63,00 to have a +0 shirt.
Very nice !!!
This shirt is only usefull if is +7 at least. The bonuses for less enchant is NOTHING.
I´d recommend NCSoft developers to review this point.
I´m very disapointed and frustated to being treated like a fool. It´s not fair !
Please take it in consideration.
Guys, be aware that the chances are very low and it´s almost impossible to reach +7.
Thanks,
I agree and I'm sorry you were duped. When you purchase something from the L2 store there should never be a "chance" to obtain something. You either get it or you don't. At this point the in game store should be called "L2 in game gamble shop". This is another reason I won't purchase these shirts. If I'm getting nothing and have to spend more to get a low chance at something then I may as well attempt this feat in game and keep my money.
I agree and I'm sorry you were duped. When you purchase something from the L2 store there should never be a "chance" to obtain something. You either get it or you don't. At this point the in game store should be called "L2 in game gamble shop". This is another reason I won't purchase these shirts. If I'm getting nothing and have to spend more to get a low chance at something then I may as well attempt this feat in game and keep my money.
Totally agree with you. In my opinion you are doing it right.
I was fool thinking that it might be different.
The problem now is: keep that **** shirt+0 (not usefull) and cost me 1200 NCOIN, or should I keep trying to enchant it untill at least +5 and then stop attempting?
I did not find my money on grass, I had to work hard to have it.
Hope that NCSoft consider it when creating those new items OR review the enchant succesfull rate.
Totally agree with you. In my opinion you are doing it right.
I was fool thinking that it might be different.
The problem now is: keep that **** shirt+0 (not usefull) and cost me 1200 NCOIN, or should I keep trying to enchant it untill at least +5 and then stop attempting?
I did not find my money on grass, I had to work hard to have it.
Hope that NCSoft consider it when creating those new items OR review the enchant succesfull rate.
You have to really be careful what you decide to purchase. If there is any item that its function or ability is left to you spending more money and a lot of chance then no I don't recommend buying it unless you have no issue with a gamble. This is also related to temporary items. Those are a waste too. A 7 day cosmetic item, whats the point? I might really like the uniform hat,but it's a total waste of coins for 7 days. If it was a permanent item I'd be all over it cause I want one on my DE female..it's sassy
You have to really be careful what you decide to purchase. If there is any item that its function or ability is left to you spending more money and a lot of chance then no I don't recommend buying it unless you have no issue with a gamble. This is also related to temporary items. Those are a waste too. A 7 day cosmetic item, whats the point? I might really like the uniform hat,but it's a total waste of coins for 7 days. If it was a permanent item I'd be all over it cause I want one on my DE female..it's sassy
Yep, I´ve never bought a 7 day item.
When I saw "30 blessed scrolls" I tought: OMG! it gonna be easy to reach +10.
Then, when I started enchanting, I realized that I were totally wrong.
30 blessed scrolls used...shirt+1
Then I bought more 8 blessed scrols...shirt+0
That´s ridiculous. When I asked the GM the rate chance, he told me he couldn´t answer. LOL. There is a guy in this topic he put the chances rates there, but I´m not sure if his source is trustable.
well, this shirt is really nice, but i remember what happened with the power shirt, few people could get it to +8, so i think wont be different now.
the difference is: power shirt was 800ncoins (if i remember well), you could buy normal scroll for make +3 and blessed scroll were 100ncoins (i think, this i really cant remember). so if you are lucky, with 1100ncoins you had your shirt+6.
now is different, 1200ncoins for shirt, 100each blessed, but u need them also for make +3. = 1800ncoins for a +6.
is a difference of 700 coins, so like 8/9$ if you are so lucky to get +6 at first try. if no, every try you need to spend 600ncoins.
all this for say, beside few people that can afford all those money for try a +8 or w/e, other will stop at +5/+6 and not try +6 more then 1 time.
I've a power shirt +5 (failed 2 times for +6 so is ok +5), and to be honest, i dont see the big 'problem' this shirt can give.... +2con and +2men ..... wow....
even a +7 wont be so dangerous imo.... im more scared of people that botting get their weapon +16 (and no, i dont talk about the scroll we had in l2 store few time ago) or their gear +10.
at least for a shirt they will spend money and not bot cos they are more 'smart' then legit players.
back again to the shirt, ncsoft made the game free to play, this means they need to get money somehow, they cant survive hoping to sell hats in l2store or runes.
Yes i can buy one hat cos is cute but stop, i can buy 2, but i wont buy every week a stupid hat. I can buy rune and vit potions, but this too, i cant buy them all days, 1 vit potions+rune 50% = 240ncoins, i can do sometimes if im near to lvl up, and also not all people are interested in buy them, so their only chance is put something that people will buy and at same time will make them get some money.
Their interest is make money, not make the game '''''fair'''' for all, they will not say 'oh someone maybe dont have money for buy this, so no we wont sell it'.
Enhanced level of success / total number of probability
+3 → +4 55/100 55%
+4 → +5 34/100 34%
+5 → +6 27/100 27%
+6 → +7 25/100 25%
+7 → +8 9/100 9%
+8 → +9 9/100 9%
+9 → +10 1/100 1%
at +7 u get lvl1 skills and at +9 lvl2
Eva:
Skill effects: to restore itself HP20% / MP20 / CP30%
HP30% / MP30% / CP50%
Pa'agrio:
Skills results: the lifting of the abnormal state of the body, and in 5/10 seconds to render the invincible state.
can not remove: fear/paralyse/hell binding etc.
Maphr:
Skills results: weapons and armor to strengthen the chances of success increase 10/15%.
Special Note: applies only to strengthen the D / C / B / A / S / S80 / R / R95 / R99 items.
Strengthen the conditions for success / total number of probability
General condition of 101/20 050 5%
Auxiliary stone 113/200 56. 5%
+7 Maphr shirt 104/200 52%
+9 Maphr shirt 108/200 54%
+7 Maphr shirt + auxiliary stone 118/200 59%
didn't bother with the Teleport shirt cause only weirdo's will try that one imo..
Cooling time: 30 minutes
Special Note: Olympia competition can also be used.
ps, Elmar got credits for posting link :)
Is it correct? the source is trustable?
If so, the real chance to get a +7 shirt is really really low !!! (if you can get the +6 prior, that´s difficult too)
OK, Here is my FRUSTATING history in-game trying to OE my elemmental shirt:
- 38 Blessed Scrolls used
- 6000 NCCoin purchased (~US$62,75)
- Maximum successfull enchantment achieved: +5
- Current status: Shirt+0
So, I used 38 Blessed scrolls, expent US$63,00 to have a +0 shirt.
Very nice !!!
This shirt is only usefull if is +7 at least. The bonuses for less enchant is NOTHING.
I´d recommend NCSoft developers to review this point.
I´m very disapointed and frustated to being treated like a fool. It´s not fair !
Please take it in consideration.
Guys, be aware that the chances are very low and it´s almost impossible to reach +7.
Thanks,
OUCH and LOL (sorry but it is kind of funny)
But yeah, I saw this promo and was about to jump all over this and give them my money for the shirt and scrolls. Then I realized, to get what I WANTED, I would have to OE and accept the fact I may end up with +0 shirt after spending 4200 +++++++ NCoins. They are trying to sell you a dream. Its a beautiful business model.
No one was fooled... if you are playing L2 for more than a few hours and have a forum account or member of a clan you already know the horror over enchanting or crafting... this ain't Kansas Dorthy.
No one was fooled... if you are playing L2 for more than a few hours and have a forum account or member of a clan you already know the horror over enchanting or crafting... this ain't Kansas Dorthy.
People forget that when there are new shiny things in the L2 store lol
When I saw "30 blessed scrolls" I tought: OMG! it gonna be easy to reach +10.
You seriously thought you'd get to +10 with 30 scrolls? Were you not around when the power shirts were first released? All I can say is that you're truly deluded if thought this cunning plan would work.
Is it correct? the source is trustable?
If so, the real chance to get a +7 shirt is really really low !!! (if you can get the +6 prior, that´s difficult too)
the source is NC Taiwan GM's who have the same version of the game as we do so yeah all the info is 100% correct, feel free to read their article yourself through google translate or w/e by checking the link Yidao provided.
also no joke these scrolls some how managed to show up on Naia server which removal I really think is kind of sad as it is expensive enough to try get +6 from +3 on wards to be forced to use only bless scrolls..
No one was fooled... if you are playing L2 for more than a few hours and have a forum account or member of a clan you already know the horror over enchanting or crafting... this ain't Kansas Dorthy.
Wasn't implying anyone was getting fooled. Just merely stating the fact the these promos are ingeniously planned. Plus like you said OE is no easy feat.
And of course there are those who think they can get +10 easily. A lot of the players blow through 1-85 never learning the game mechanics.
I remember it was such a big deal when people got +4 D-grades :eek:
heh looking on description of shirts power shirt is better than this something lol :D
better think twice before spending $ on anything in l2galleria :>
like at least with the power shirts you could spend adena to get to +3. I wasted 1800 ncoin just to get them all to +3 which is garbage. like 70$ and I have nothing. At least with the power shirts I wouldve only spent 700 ncoin breaking them all compared to 1800. Apprently from what my chat is always spammed in each town I couldve bought 1 billion adena instead with the money lol(just saying not supporting rmt, spam bots are hard not to read)
DO NOT BUY THESE SHIRTS!
Aparently some moron who's opinion is valued by some people said the enchant rate for these was higher...
->The enchant rate is not higher, it is lower then normal enchant values
I overenchant armor all the time and I have never seen anything this bad, even mage weapons.
So Far: I have done 8 enchant attempts past 3.
Going +4... 6 Times has failed, 2 times success.
Going +5... 2 Times Failed
Is it possible to get a refund on my shirt?
This is worthless I will either put it in my warehouse or delete it from my invintory.
$60. down the toilet and considering quitting.
When enchant fails reset the shirt to +3 instead of +0. This is ridiculous to use expensive blessed scrolls to make +3.
An even better solution would be to sell enchant of destruction for more $$ that the + level does not reset when failed.
And all cash shop items should be fully tradable. That way people could buy them with cash and sell them to free players who have adena or items to trade.
It is completely unfair to pay cash for an item that is not tradable.
It would be a very smart business move if you also offered a +7 shirt for sale directly at a higher price. The gambling nature of this shirt experience will turn off alot of people. people will pay quite a bit for a good shirt, but they want to get what they pay for.
Im not willing to pay $50+ for an empty box of promises and "low chance" a secret dwindling enchant success rates.
And any time you sell a gambling item you must have full disclosure on all rates. If people are paying they have a right to know exactly what they are paying for.
The elemental shirts and scrolls are new items, no? How then could there be regular Elemental Shirt enchant scrolls, if there is no way to obtain them?
*confused
Can people use the old power shirt enchant scrolls on the new Elemental Shirts?
---
~Rj
=)
BTW, @ all the people that are complaining about the enchant rate, and gambling away their precious dollars for +0 --
Please understand that a few months ago, the Power Shirts caused a similar ruckus. Unfortunately, I got sucked into it before I read the forum. Spent at least $150 trying to get a +7. The result? I only succeeded in +6 once, then failed. I ended up with only +5, and had to buy more to get it back up to +5 and quit.
From now on, I read the forum before I buy. I listen to what others say, and see other people's results before I decide. Take this bitter situation as a good lesson, and pay close attention to what you pay for.
*Also, don't spend money on NCoin that you cannot afford to lose. This is a game, meant for entertainment. You DID have a CHANCE to have a nice item, and that's what you paid for: the fun of trying for a special item. Someone somewhere will likely get a high enchant easily, thanks to Korean Random, but that's just the RNG for ya.
---
~Rj
=)
I think that there should be either normal enchant scrolls to do 1-3+ or when you fail it reverts to +3, seems kind of silly to use Blessed scrolls going from 1-3... Also anyone still not know if you can use an armor enchant stone? there is a slot for one?
DO NOT BUY THESE SHIRTS!
Aparently some moron who's opinion is valued by some people said the enchant rate for these was higher...
->The enchant rate is not higher, it is lower then normal enchant values
I overenchant armor all the time and I have never seen anything this bad, even mage weapons.
So Far: I have done 8 enchant attempts past 3.
Going +4... 6 Times has failed, 2 times success.
Going +5... 2 Times Failed
Is it possible to get a refund on my shirt?
This is worthless I will either put it in my warehouse or delete it from my invintory.
$60. down the toilet and considering quitting.
100000 stars for this post!
I´m feeling exactly the same.
US$ 65,00 for NOTHING.
Is it possible to get a refund on my shirt?
This is worthless I will either put it in my warehouse or delete it from my invintory.
when enchant fails reset the shirt to +3 instead of +0. This is ridiculous to use expensive blessed scrolls to make +3.
An even better solution would be to sell enchant of destruction for more $$ that the + level does not reset when failed.
And all cash shop items should be fully tradable. That way people could buy them with cash and sell them to free players who have adena or items to trade.
It is completely unfair to pay cash for an item that is not tradable.
It would be a very smart business move if you also offered a +7 shirt for sale directly at a higher price. The gambling nature of this shirt experience will turn off alot of people. People will pay quite a bit for a good shirt, but they want to get what they pay for.
Im not willing to pay $50+ for an empty box of promises and "low chance" a secret dwindling enchant success rates.
And any time you sell a gambling item you must have full disclosure on all rates. If people are paying they have a right to know exactly what they are paying for.
i dont get why we should use blessed scroll for make +3... if i fail i need to spend 300ncoins for make it +3......those are like 4$.....4$ trashed tbh...
as i said before, power shirt was better.
and im wondering an other thing.... pack of 30 blessed with change of get a +7 shirt: so lets put the case i buy a shirt (1200ncoins) + a pack of 30 blessed (3000 ncoins) = 4200ncoins.
now, lets say im SO LUCKY (ahahah), i open the pack and WOOOOOOOW i find a +7 shirt....can you tell me what the hell i do with an other shirt and 30 blessed? shirts are not tradable and cant be moved neither on an other toon on same account. so wtf i do with 2 shirts? i try go +10? LOL
Or maybe i should first buy the pack, open it and then buy the shirt? still i dont find any sense, and 30 blessed are too much :s i would buy a pack of 10 blessed, or 5, but not 30 :s 3000ncoins are a lot
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
NC store or not, NEVER EVER over-enchant ANYTHING unless you have everything else already (like highest of everything available in current update) and loads of adena/cash lying around in the billions or thousands, respectively.
If I ever get to the point where I have everything else and a +7 NCshirt is what's holding me back from the next step up in Play2Compete, I'm sure NC will have them in the store again to see how many suckers they can get to drop $100 before word spreads that it's a waste of money.
I do commend NCsoft for having a really great graphic display of these "dream shirts" and the alluring active skills. I would be so tempted for "only +7" and settle for +7 run speed, except I read the forums on the Power shirts.
Advertising is always misleading. Not technically, or legally, but pretty colors and "a chance for something great"... you have no legal repercussions for dream-ideal outcomes to which your mind may have jumped.
If you see anyone link a ++ shirt and say they went 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 first try, they are full of bologna. Just like those adena spammers wouldn't be around if people weren't buying.
I do love how real-life economics collide with fantasy worlds in MMO's. I mean, it sucks in game, but is very fascinating as to how the world works.
Thanks ncsoft for 6 months playing oficial l2... but no money no honey...people with +100000000000 stats, ++++sets +++++weapons, dex,str,con x200, as I will be able to play? if I have any options...adena sellers(this is the best ncsoft l2business) ,bots without punishment,transfer of players (at start of server in announcements says never* transfer of players to magmeld server),what a disappointment :(
Lebron James is a basketball player who was born into very modest beginnings. Why is it that, despite those modest beginnings, he was already a better basketball player than most NBA players when he was forced into going pro (due to the NCAA wanting to basically make an example out of a rather innocent mistake).
Did he get better after going pro? Of course, but that wasn't in question. The simple fact that he was already better than most NBA players at the time of his draft shows that money is not required to become competitive.
The problem is, in the context of this game (the competition in Lineage 2), where there are fewer factors that determine success (player skill and strategy never did influence much; it was largely a function of how much time was spent playing the game relative to your opponent(s) until cheating is factored in), paying to win creates imbalances that can only be compensated by paying as much as your opponents are paying in order to win.
.
Some1 thinking rationally on these forums, and speaking English. I give you +10 internets sir.
Some1 thinking rationally on these forums, and speaking English. I give you +10 internets sir.
Lol.
Remember that ol' saying "the internet is for *censored*"?
The internet is for complaining! Rationally or irrationally, it makes no difference.
The ice in my water melted because my computer is warming the air around my desk. Seriously? I mean it's ice! It's supposed to be ice and stay cold. I can't believe I put water in my cube trays in the freezer for what is now room temperature water. F-ing ridiculous.
Lebron James is a basketball player who was born into very modest beginnings. Why is it that, despite those modest beginnings, he was already a better basketball player than most NBA players when he was forced into going pro (due to the NCAA wanting to basically make an example out of a rather innocent mistake).
Did he get better after going pro? Of course, but that wasn't in question. The simple fact that he was already better than most NBA players at the time of his draft shows that money is not required to become competitive.
In Lebron James (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James) first year of Pee-Wee Football, he formed a bond with his coach Frankie Walker, who arranged for James to live with the Walkers to stabilize James' living environment. (smells like funding pay to win)
For his 18th birthday, he accepted a Hummer H2 from his mother Gloria, who secured a loan for the vehicle utilizing LeBron's future earning power as a professional athlete. (innocent mistake... right)
In Lebron James (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James) first year of Pee-Wee Football, he formed a bond with his coach Frankie Walker, who arranged for James to live with the Walkers to stabilize James' living environment. (smells like funding pay to win)
For his 18th birthday, he accepted a Hummer H2 from his mother Gloria, who secured a loan for the vehicle utilizing LeBron's future earning power as a professional athlete. (innocent mistake... right)
The world is pay to win.
depends on your idea of winning. I treasure things the most in life that money cant buy.some people are so poor all they have is money
When enchant fails reset the shirt to +3 instead of +0. This is ridiculous to use expensive blessed scrolls to make +3.
An even better solution would be to sell enchant of destruction for more $$ that the + level does not reset when failed.
And all cash shop items should be fully tradable. That way people could buy them with cash and sell them to free players who have adena or items to trade.
It is completely unfair to pay cash for an item that is not tradable.
It would be a very smart business move if you also offered a +7 shirt for sale directly at a higher price. The gambling nature of this shirt experience will turn off alot of people. people will pay quite a bit for a good shirt, but they want to get what they pay for.
Im not willing to pay $50+ for an empty box of promises and "low chance" a secret dwindling enchant success rates.
And any time you sell a gambling item you must have full disclosure on all rates. If people are paying they have a right to know exactly what they are paying for.
+1
Maybe this would justify all these items in nc coin shop,which are lovely and normally would give us such a pleasure,now they only give us frustration.Anyone who claims items like these shirts dont affect gameplaying,is jocking.Anyone who plays oly/ceremony/pvp,will need such shirt and the worst thing is,he has to have the money to buy them NOW,if he cant,he knows he will stay for the rest of his L2 gaming without those skills while other players will have them.
Even worst,just a few months ago we payed for the power shirt only to see now other shirts with better stats.Why our money went for nothing?
Atleast they should wait for next update and call those shirts let's say,''new update stuff''.
(anyone remembers the old events we could get some rare hat as reward,or even dozen of accesorys we could sell 2-3 years later to new players and make income?)
One more thing,maybe need answer from Yidao here,in korean server the coins shop works like ours?Or if i remember correct,koreans play from netcafe using some timecards/points system,points they can cash outinto coins to buy the shop items(like we did when servers became f2p with the rest of gamingtime it was left in our acount), while we ,have to pay the best internet connection and buy the best computer and pay every month for additional program to elliminate the lag of server and then need to pay for monthly vitality items AND the new shop item game shows you need to have.
For Ncwest people information,this is how much their ''f2p'' kind of game cost us in my country(salarys are the same in all south europe and its even worst in some european countrys)
-new strong computer (around 1.500 euro,not for top computer ofc, also dont think everyone would keep boosting his computer or buy new one in the middle of economic crisis if there was not l2 involved)
-monthly internet provider,50 euro per month
-lowerping for lag,7e per month
-monthly coins for vitality items,atleast 50 euro,average is 100 euro and the ''big players'' spent atleast 200-400 euro.
-item every 3-4 months player see he ''has'' to buy no matter if he can afford it or not(like these shirts),~ 70 euro
(i exclude the items for people with rich daddy,like the packages with destruction scrolls ect,on such stuff players pay around 3000 euro each time)
.the montly salary for a person who has university degree and works 10+ years is less than 900 euro(halph of them go to loans and taxis)
.the lowest monthly salary for a young working person is 230 euro(he cant pay rent and he is lucky if his parents can feed him)
Do the maths and decide if Ncwest system is affordable for the average player.
The sad part is none of the items with stats even need to be sold.players in l2 WILL pay for unique and different accessories.NO! not ones that expire in 30 days but permanent ones. look at the Chic Silver Chapeau (http://store.lineage2.com/store/detail?goodsNo=222560&categoryPath=1_3) it is a great looking item and players want it.If its cosmetic fluff items then nc is being fair to the entire community and they will still make money.
they can sell unique armour skins for players who pay and more mounts but the stuff has to be good.Lots of it is just lame and thats not even my personal opinion you can tell by the sales.The problem is a cash shop should be strictly fluff/vanity items and not game changing stats. Sure many have wasted money buying these shirts and got nothing..but some WILL have the powerful skills/stats
there is just simply no need for this to be sold for nc to make money.With no players around they wont be able to sell anything. I am starting to feel like this whole revival of the game was just a quick cash grab.
I have been proud of this truly free model and told "people come play l2 the entire game truly is free not like those other fremium models where you are locked out of content" and i was wrong. This is such pay 2 win.
I have been proud of this truly free model and told "people come play l2 the entire game truly is free not like those other fremium models where you are locked out of content" and i was wrong. This is such pay 2 win.
The tricky part is,no company is charity foundation.
When game went f2p,we should suspect that Ncwest should guarandee their monthly income from somewhere.
Only a suscription with privileges for the ones that want expirience game in all aspects but also to afford doing this+ f2p to ensure that servers will look full always and new customers will start and buy suscriptions would give them a steady good income and us an affordable good game.Cant understand why they didnt do it.
i would gladly pay my 15$ a month sub on many accounts again if they would fix the **** problems.when "free to play" becomes a ghost town they wont be able to revive it again even if they wanted to.
I guess it was a bit idiot idea to take these shirts to game in this form.
1. If you would say, that I get a +7 shirt for 4000 or 5000 NCoins might be me and many anothers would say ok, I pay this money.
But we have to pay 1200 NCoins for a shirt what at +0 useless, but nothing confirm it that with 30 scrolls i make a +6 one minimum.
2. With the prices you just watch the American market while good if some players plays from the United States biggest population of this game from East-South-Central Europe and South America.
To us the fair price would be 20 Coins for enchants and about 250 for the Shirts. You wouldn't loose money, because than the rich players would buy 4 type of shirts too or they would target the +10 too.
3. Those who bought Power Shirts now can cry a river their +6 Power Shirt useless if we compare them to these +6 Shirts.
4. I think these stuffs doesn't make you better than your rival in PvP really not, so it isn't Pay to Win.
Soon comes the Dual Class Shirts in the Glory Days for free and gives stat bonuses from +0!!!!
5. Free to play mean you can play for free, but it doesn't say, that you must play for free:P
Rich guys mostly exist just in a short term in this game, most of those who got +15 blessed DEWR weapons doesn't plays.
So stop the QQ.
But GM Juji has a shirt that is better than all shirts. It has invincibility for 1h and can be casted every 1h :D
Serious question though, isn't this online gambling? Isn't that an issue with the teen rating? When I was in the states teens weren't even allowed to walk through a casino let alone gamble.
funny **** how people get frustated when L2 servers are downfor weekly maintainence, but when NC Soft tries to get some money out of the game instead of just closing the servers, people get so mad... its like, its free to play, but u can get a lil better if u pay!!!!
note that some people wasted money on the other power shirt and probably with retry on this shirts and they dont complain!!!! note aswell that every free game has stuff to be bought and revamp the player who buys it... 1 year ago some people couldnt even play here, now they do... and yes, this is free to play, just more expensive to some then when it was pay to play!
* L2 is free to play.
* You dont pay anything at month for pay.
* Ncsoft need to make money somehow.
* The need to sell things that people will buy a lot and make them get money fast
* You can play w/o buy anything in l2store
* IS Y-O-U-R choise if buy something or no, no1 will put a gun in your head.
if you think that ncsoft is wrong cos wanna get money with items like this: fairy tale doesnt exist. They need to make money somehow, people actualy buy those items, ncsoft doesnt really care if you dont have money for buy them.
Out of the L2 Store: "Cancels all debuffs"...
VS.
Player experience:
Skills results: the lifting of the abnormal state of the body, and in 5/10 seconds to render the invincible state.
can not remove: fear/paralyse/hell binding etc. <-
* L2 is free to play.
* You dont pay anything at month for pay.
* Ncsoft need to make money somehow.
* The need to sell things that people will buy a lot and make them get money fast
* You can play w/o buy anything in l2store
* IS Y-O-U-R choise if buy something or no, no1 will put a gun in your head.
if you think that ncsoft is wrong cos wanna get money with items like this: fairy tale doesnt exist. They need to make money somehow, people actualy buy those items, ncsoft doesnt really care if you dont have money for buy them.
Nice NCSoft needs your protection! what do you wait from them?? A bonus? May be a free power shirt +7?? What a shame! Why you don't give them a good donation??
If we discuss here is to try to get stuff that everybody can afford and try to get this game fair. We know that NCSoft needs to win money! Everybody needs, all companies need money to run properly, BUT in a correct way! This is not correct they sell now much better power shirts and we bought few months ago another that we can't upgrade! they don't sell normal enchant to put to +3! This is an abuse IMO
Maybe it removes debuffs that dont disable you?
Like you need to be able to actually perform an action to lift the debuffs.
Could be, dunno since i won't bother to buy that shirt. Just IF it is like you said that it could be, then they have to change their description.
But it does lift all debuffs? If you are able to click it?
They would need to change description on bsoe also, or party return. Those also dont work when feared/paralyzed/lifted.
Imagine the rage if ppl expect being able to remove hellbind/exile etc. and they aren't :eek:
(tho i am sure NCWest just used some google translation of that item, put it to the store and actually haven't tested it. Like they always tend to do)
the concept of paying 50€ and in the end getting all enchants faild (my best was a +4) dosnt realy made me happy and i have the feeling that im not alone.
Out of the L2 Store: "Cancels all debuffs"...
VS.
Player experience:
Skills results: the lifting of the abnormal state of the body, and in 5/10 seconds to render the invincible state.
can not remove: fear/paralyse/hell binding etc. <-
Any clarification?
Pa'agrio's Shirt comes with an active skill called "Power of Pa'agrio" lvl 1 resp. 2 when enchanted to +7 resp. 9:
This active skill basically removes all debuffs and gives you Ultimate Defense for 5 (at lvl 1/enchanted to +7) resp. 10 (at lvl 2/enchanted to +9) seconds. The "Power of Pa'agrio" skill has a cooldown/re-use time of 30 minutes.
You can, while in Ultimate Defense, attack your enemy and use other skills; this will not remove the Ultimate Defense state. This Shirt, with its skill, can also be used in the Olympiad.
The caveat not mentioned in the English version is that you can not use the debuff-cancelling skill when you are in a state which impedes your movement, i.e. when you are Stunned, Feared, Sleeped, Petrified etc.: http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/l2_friend/article?mid=28816&prev=29088&next=28587&l=f&fid=5
(Smittie was right, it's like with Party Return, which also doesn't work under those conditions.)
So the strategy when dealing with a known Pa'agrio Shirt wearer is to first Hammercrush him and then cast all sorts of debuffs on the helpless victim :D
Nice NCSoft needs your protection! what do you wait from them?? A bonus? May be a free power shirt +7?? What a shame! Why you don't give them a good donation??
If we discuss here is to try to get stuff that everybody can afford and try to get this game fair. We know that NCSoft needs to win money! Everybody needs, all companies need money to run properly, BUT in a correct way! This is not correct they sell now much better power shirts and we bought few months ago another that we can't upgrade! they don't sell normal enchant to put to +3! This is an abuse IMO
what i wait? rofl, dear im not like you that need to cry cos i cant afford something. I dont need anything from anyone, if i want it i can buy it, if im not interested (like now) i dont buy. The real shame is ppl like you, not able to understand that ncsoft dont care if you QQ cos you cant buy something, and the only way for get things 'fair' as you said, if they put them for free. Cos also if they sells shirts for 1$, will be ppl QQing cos they dont have a credit card. fairy tale doesnt exist, wake up.
Donation? rofl, i pay for an item, is not a donation. learn to use words.
Enhanced level of success / total number of probability
+3 → +4 55/100 55%
+4 → +5 34/100 34%
+5 → +6 27/100 27%
+6 → +7 25/100 25%
+7 → +8 9/100 9%
+8 → +9 9/100 9%
+9 → +10 1/100 1%
at +7 u get lvl1 skills and at +9 lvl2
Eva:
Skill effects: to restore itself HP20% / MP20 / CP30%
HP30% / MP30% / CP50%
Pa'agrio:
Skills results: the lifting of the abnormal state of the body, and in 5/10 seconds to render the invincible state.
can not remove: fear/paralyse/hell binding etc.
Maphr:
Skills results: weapons and armor to strengthen the chances of success increase 10/15%.
Special Note: applies only to strengthen the D / C / B / A / S / S80 / R / R95 / R99 items.
Strengthen the conditions for success / total number of probability
General condition of 101/20 050 5%
Auxiliary stone 113/200 56. 5%
+7 Maphr shirt 104/200 52%
+9 Maphr shirt 108/200 54%
+7 Maphr shirt + auxiliary stone 118/200 59%
didn't bother with the Teleport shirt cause only weirdo's will try that one imo..
Cooling time: 30 minutes
Special Note: Olympia competition can also be used.
Nice NCSoft needs your protection! what do you wait from them?? A bonus? May be a free power shirt +7?? What a shame! Why you don't give them a good donation??
If we discuss here is to try to get stuff that everybody can afford and try to get this game fair. We know that NCSoft needs to win money! Everybody needs, all companies need money to run properly, BUT in a correct way! This is not correct they sell now much better power shirts and we bought few months ago another that we can't upgrade! they don't sell normal enchant to put to +3! This is an abuse IMO
Alhe2233 has right, but you too.
Isn't the Power/Elemental Shirt the problem here, but their prices!
If the NCsoft would say Elemental Shirt for 200 NCoins enchant scrolls for 20 NCoins than those players could buy it who just can buy 400-800 NCoins per month.
While the rich players mostly now target the +7, than they would target the +10.
So the NCwest wouldn't loose money if they would decrease all of their item prices with about -70%, they would get +200-300% more incomings, because much more players would shopping.
Also would be lower the number of those who cry for the expensive L2 Store items.
In Lebron James (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James) first year of Pee-Wee Football, he formed a bond with his coach Frankie Walker, who arranged for James to live with the Walkers to stabilize James' living environment. (smells like funding pay to win)
For his 18th birthday, he accepted a Hummer H2 from his mother Gloria, who secured a loan for the vehicle utilizing LeBron's future earning power as a professional athlete. (innocent mistake... right)
The world is pay to win.
Nice spin on his "funding" to make it seem like he was paid to get better at basketball, when that "funding" was merely to provide housing. It's not like he was somehow parlaying his being able to live with the Walkers into specialized training lol.
And his mother was able to secure the loan for the H2 based on his abilities that were already developed at the time - his future earning potential based on his already-developed abilities at the time suggested to the bank that he would be able to pay back the loan easily. This actually benefits my argument. Thanks for that.
Seriously, stop with your grasping at straws. You're simply picking out details that potentially sound right given the correct spin, but it's all just a desperate attempt at drawing away from the real point of the discussion. The NBA and pro soccer (football) alone are full of possible examples that can be drawn to disprove your argument - from Larry Bird to Pele; from current times to before there were even specialists/trainers you could pay to make you better at whatever sport you're playing.
We all know you're desperate to defend NCSoft anyway you can, first flatly denying that this was even pay-to-win to resorting to defending pay-to-win when it was finally clear to even you that it is. And that's kind of the point that you're missing: You already lost the argument as soon as you made that switch because you've admitted that Lineage 2 is clearly not "Truly Free."
This game is free to play if you choose that path (pun intended) or pay to win if you are a realist and enhance your game play. Everything in this world and the virtual world is bought and sold around the clock, even the fantasy in which life is fair and all is equal between the rich and poor. Just as Lebron was able to enhance is game play by the funding of the Walker family, via actual cost incurred by better health and his personal training environment.
Look I could give a rat's tail if you or any of these other “casual players” buy a single thing from NCSoft… won’t change my game play. So, keep living in the belief the world is pure and free and the fields are safe to skip through.
This game is free to play if you choose that path (pun intended) or pay to win if you are a realist and enhance your game play. Everything in this world and the virtual world is bought and sold around the clock, even the fantasy in which life is fair and all is equal between the rich and poor. Just as Lebron was able to enhance is game play by the funding of the Walker family, via actual cost incurred by better health and his personal training environment.
Look I could give a rat's tail if you or any of these other “casual players” buy a single thing from NCSoft… won’t change my game play. So, keep living in the belief the world is pure and free and the fields are safe to skip through.
The problem is that you don't even understand (or try to understand) what's being said, but instead just stick to the same tired comments meant to demean, but just end up sounding like someone who's gotten their **** kicked in so much by life that you'd be mistaken for someone suffering from Stockholm Syndrome with the way you take every opportunity to defend your "abusers" against anyone who actually expects a company to care about retaining its customers.
As for the "casual" comment, I don't even know what server you're on, but based on how clueless your posts often are about the finer points of anything in this game (except maybe staying dead to keep playing "Truly Free" or something), I'm pretty sure I'm more "hardcore" than you've ever been.
i love it when people QQ when these enhancement items are introduced into the game. yes, the +10 shirts look powerful and it would be great to have, but seriously why cry like anyone can just get a +10? when they introduced the first power shirts, people cried that it was overpowered. at +10, yes it would be overpowered, but what server had a +10? the server i played on, the highest anyone has ever got was a +8! so stop your crying everybody and let ncsoft make thier money, if you want to help them, then buy thier products, it is a free game.
the only thing i will admit is unfair was the sale of destruction scrolls. other than that, power shirts/gatekeeper hats/element shirts......don't make that great of a difference. i know a few characters that p2w and they still die to people that know how to play the game.
I agree and I'm sorry you were duped. When you purchase something from the L2 store there should never be a "chance" to obtain something. You either get it or you don't. At this point the in game store should be called "L2 in game gamble shop". This is another reason I won't purchase these shirts. If I'm getting nothing and have to spend more to get a low chance at something then I may as well attempt this feat in game and keep my money.
I agree with you here. I spent 170.00 dollars and now have a +6 paagrio shirt. The game is becoming "Pay to Gamble". I had the money to spend, so while it's a hit, I had the cash to blow. That being said, moving forward I wont be buying anything but runes with the chance levels the way they are.
This skill has a re-use time of 1 minute and comes in two levels. At lvl 1, i.e. when you have enchanted your Shirt to +7, it will teleport you alone to the gate. What it says in the English item description (http://store.lineage2.com/store/detail?goodsNo=346240&categoryPath=1_7) about "teleport through your own portal" is wrong.
As Draecke has pointed out before things got a bit mixed up through the recent thread unification, this is of very limited use. You could put the portal in town, kill some monsters in front of the city walls for 4 minutes, and then use your "Power of Sayha" skill to teleport back into town.
When you enchant your Shirt to +9 and get lvl 2 of the teleportation skill, you can teleport your whole party to the location of the gate (it's instant; they won't be asked by the system whether they actually want to be teleported). You could for example run ahead to some hunting ground, put up a gate there, and then fetch all your party mates.
When faced with such odds, you must ask yourself a question: Can you not only afford to but do you truly enjoy burning 100 dollar notes to ashes? If you can answer with an honest "Yes!", then the Elemental Shirts are just the thing for you. Otherwise, if you have less than 1 million dollar on your bank account, don't buy them. They will make you unhappy.
i dont care that they are selling items. So many of you seem to bring up the fact they need to make money.What i do care about is the items they are selling are not only upsetting people who feel obligated to buy them....but apparently people who even do buy them can blow 60$+ and end up with nothing.
They could sell so many other items that dont piss off the entire fan base.
The point is they are killing the game and that is not my opinion it is fact. Look at the server population since the launch of GoD and if you want to tell me that the mad rush of people in the beginning making the servers at HIGH status were bots that have since been banned you are delusional because there are more bots there now that the servers are on normal and light.
In the end i really dont CARE that nc is selling items and i will buy them...but make the items fair or this game will die. That is the reality of it, so sugar coat it all you want.No matter how kewl the stuff ncsoft makes if i feel the game will just be dead soon i wont buy it and waste m money and that is the future of l2 at this point.
You think if the servers are on life support NCsoft can make an announcement of cleaning up bots and it really is truly free now and not a joke cash shop they will win back the western mmo audience?? you really really dont know what the industry is like here if you think that at all.
Games get ONE shot here to get it right and that is ALL, the only reason people ever even came to try this *truly free* model is because they love l2 and would rather play official than private servers if the experience is good.The only reason Aion ever bounced back was because they cleaned up the bots, went free to play and they only really sell xp items and fluff stuff for vanity or looks but that is still not the game it could have been and it simply wont ever be now.
I am not a guild wars 2 fan boy and i wont even play the game....but why the hell will people come play l2 when they can play that???
I agree with you here. I spent 170.00 dollars and now have a +6 paagrio shirt. The game is becoming "Pay to Gamble". I had the money to spend, so while it's a hit, I had the cash to blow. That being said, moving forward I wont be buying anything but runes with the chance levels the way they are.
$170 will buy my groceries for two weeks and then some or pay my cell phone bill and then some or my cable/internet bill and then some. Well you get the point. I chose to pay my bills over tossing it to a chance at game item.
i love it when people QQ when these enhancement items are introduced into the game. yes, the +10 shirts look powerful and it would be great to have, but seriously why cry like anyone can just get a +10? when they introduced the first power shirts, people cried that it was overpowered. at +10, yes it would be overpowered, but what server had a +10? the server i played on, the highest anyone has ever got was a +8! so stop your crying everybody and let ncsoft make thier money, if you want to help them, then buy thier products, it is a free game.
the only thing i will admit is unfair was the sale of destruction scrolls. other than that, power shirts/gatekeeper hats/element shirts......don't make that great of a difference. i know a few characters that p2w and they still die to people that know how to play the game.
It's not really about how frequently you'll come across someone wearing a +10 shirt.
Admittedly, it would obviously be worse if +10 shirts (or of any enchant level worth a ****) were common, but it's about when and where you'll run into that +10 shirt.
For much of the time, certain class heroes are determined by the slightest point margins.
Now, imagine if you ended up 2nd place to someone only because your opponent, who ended up 1st, had a +7 Pa'agrio's Shirt and you didn't. You have effectively lost hero for not paying to win.
Olympiad isn't the only place where that would manifest itself as an issue - imagine getting ganked by someone, or being unable to kill someone you normally would before they're able to PR/BSOE/port out through an NPC.
But, it's also the cumulative effects of past, current and future pay-to-win items that are a problem.
Those who are willing to shell out thousands on these shirts are likely willing to have also poured similar amounts of money on previous and future pay-to-win items. Let's say that you're a lvl 85 mage. Does facing down a rogue in hide (assuming that you're not cheating) with a 5 second UD and red weapon sound fun to you? How about when you add in other pay-to-win items that NCSoft definitely has planned for sale in the future?
And let's all be honest here, those who are willing to pay-to-win are probably more likely to employ various cheating tools in order to play-to-win. Paying-to-win fits fine in the psyche of those who wish to win-at-all-costs, so it shouldn't be much of a stretch to assume that win-at-all-costs players are more likely to employ some combination of both pay-to-win and cheating to achieve that goal.
Ignoring that as a mere conjecture, you can at least assume that at least some of the mass amounts of pvp cheaters that run rampant in the servers today also pay-to-win.
So, the scenario becomes you (a lvl 85 mage) vs. a rogue with a 5 second UD and red weapon who is also all Rangered/Ctrled up. That sounds like real fun there.
i dont care that they are selling items. So many of you seem to bring up the fact they need to make money.What i do care about is the items they are selling are not only upsetting people who feel obligated to buy them....but apparently people who even do buy them can blow 60$+ and end up with nothing.
They could sell so many other items that dont piss off the entire fan base.
The point is they are killing the game and that is not my opinion it is fact. Look at the server population since the launch of GoD and if you want to tell me that the mad rush of people in the beginning making the servers at HIGH status were bots that have since been banned you are delusional because there are more bots there now that the servers are on normal and light.
In the end i really dont CARE that nc is selling items and i will buy them...but make the items fair or this game will die. That is the reality of it, so sugar coat it all you want.No matter how kewl the stuff ncsoft makes if i feel the game will just be dead soon i wont buy it and waste m money and that is the future of l2 at this point.
You think if the servers are on life support NCsoft can make an announcement of cleaning up bots and it really is truly free now and not a joke cash shop they will win back the western mmo audience?? you really really dont know what the industry is like here if you think that at all.
Games get ONE shot here to get it right and that is ALL, the only reason people ever even came to try this *truly free* model is because they love l2 and would rather play official than private servers if the experience is good.The only reason Aion ever bounced back was because they cleaned up the bots, went free to play and they only really sell xp items and fluff stuff for vanity or looks but that is still not the game it could have been and it simply wont ever be now.
I am not a guild wars 2 fan boy and i wont even play the game....but why the hell will people come play l2 when they can play that???
Don't bother wasting your time bringing up p2w, most of the forums users will troll you to death. It's like the fight against bots you can't beat them either.
As a new player I would like to make 1-2 comments. I think most miss the difference between 'bonus' and 'potential'. The game is marketed as 'truly' free and that made it stand out compared to most other P2W games, at least for me and my friends.
Selling items that, in a deterministic manner, benefit paying players over non-paying players even by a slight amount is justifiable for the company to do so BUT as long as it markets it in such manner. The company must make profit obviously but the problem rises when it promises different things from those that it provides. Don't take me wrong, I am a new player and I am enjoying the game so far and I have so many things ahead to experience that these shirts' benefits seem meaningless to me, though a cut-down of the potential of a character even before the starting line brings bitterness.
Obviously, a paying player that supports the company through payment should be able to receive bonuses of various forms (faster xp, quest rewards, enchant rates) but the magic word 'truly' implies that the potential of all players should be equal. As others suggested present and future items like that can be tradable or rewards of torturing quests but still accessible by all players, in an easier or harder way.
Regarding the real life examples that you are talking about, I believe it is the same thing. Of course a wealthy or more resourceful person may have the advantage but thankfully all have the potential to reach where they want. Of course the possibility may not be great but at least it is not zeroed out in a deterministic manner. Thankfully life is not pay to win as someone said 'cause else a lot of persons-miracles that move us forward would never stand a chance. So I hope it is more 'truly free to play'. Hard yes, impossible not.
A final point about people complaining about the enchant success rates. I agree that the rates should be known beforehand but in gambling you always run the risk of getting nothing in return and you must be prepared for it before engaging. Comments like 'I paid X amount of money thus I am entitled to a +7 shirt' can easily turn into 'I pay Y amount of money to have Valakas as a summon pet' and lead to 'I am willing to pay Z amount of money so that I can PK everyone just by being in the same area as their toons'. It is acceptable if the company and the majority of the community is willing to go down this road but at least properly advertise it so.
Sorry for the long post. Once more, the point is not about how powerful these shirts are or aren't, it is not about who can and who can't pay for them. It is about if the community wants a 'truly' free game or instead prefers to open the Pandora's box of cash-only items that will progressively change the nature of the game.
i dont care that they are selling items. So many of you seem to bring up the fact they need to make money.What i do care about is the items they are selling are not only upsetting people who feel obligated to buy them....but apparently people who even do buy them can blow 60$+ and end up with nothing.
They could sell so many other items that dont piss off the entire fan base.
The point is they are killing the game and that is not my opinion it is fact. Look at the server population since the launch of GoD and if you want to tell me that the mad rush of people in the beginning making the servers at HIGH status were bots that have since been banned you are delusional because there are more bots there now that the servers are on normal and light.
In the end i really dont CARE that nc is selling items and i will buy them...but make the items fair or this game will die. That is the reality of it, so sugar coat it all you want.No matter how kewl the stuff ncsoft makes if i feel the game will just be dead soon i wont buy it and waste m money and that is the future of l2 at this point.
You think if the servers are on life support NCsoft can make an announcement of cleaning up bots and it really is truly free now and not a joke cash shop they will win back the western mmo audience?? you really really dont know what the industry is like here if you think that at all.
Games get ONE shot here to get it right and that is ALL, the only reason people ever even came to try this *truly free* model is because they love l2 and would rather play official than private servers if the experience is good.The only reason Aion ever bounced back was because they cleaned up the bots, went free to play and they only really sell xp items and fluff stuff for vanity or looks but that is still not the game it could have been and it simply wont ever be now.
I am not a guild wars 2 fan boy and i wont even play the game....but why the hell will people come play l2 when they can play that???
Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
The pattern of NCSoft policy destroying the server population is repeating itself here as it did with the bots before Pay-to-Win.
Consider the influx of Brazilian players to the servers after "Truly Free" went live. Obviously, the number of Brazilian players is significant enough for NCSoft to prioritize implementation of pay methods specifically for them despite NCSoft's usual glacial pace at doing anything.
These players have only kept off of the official servers because they didn't want to pay subscription fees. And now that the game is supposedly "Truly Free" and the Brazilians are here, is NCSoft really that naive to think that they'll stick around and try to compete against pay-to-win players or that the Brazilians will pay-to-win themselves?
As a new player I would like to make 1-2 comments. I think most miss the difference between 'bonus' and 'potential'. The game is marketed as 'truly' free and that made it stand out compared to most other P2W games, at least for me and my friends.
Selling items that, in a deterministic manner, benefit paying players over non-paying players even by a slight amount is justifiable for the company to do so BUT as long as it markets it in such manner. The company must make profit obviously but the problem rises when it promises different things from those that it provides. Don't take me wrong, I am a new player and I am enjoying the game so far and I have so many things ahead to experience that these shirts' benefits seem meaningless to me, though a cut-down of the potential of a character even before the starting line brings bitterness.
Obviously, a paying player that supports the company through payment should be able to receive bonuses of various forms (faster xp, quest rewards, enchant rates) but the magic word 'truly' implies that the potential of all players should be equal. As others suggested present and future items like that can be tradable or rewards of torturing quests but still accessible by all players, in an easier or harder way.
Regarding the real life examples that you are talking about, I believe it is the same thing. Of course a wealthy or more resourceful person may have the advantage but thankfully all have the potential to reach where they want. Of course the possibility may not be great but at least it is not zeroed out in a deterministic manner. Thankfully life is not pay to win as someone said 'cause else a lot of persons-miracles that move us forward would never stand a chance. So I hope it is more 'truly free to play'. Hard yes, impossible not.
A final point about people complaining about the enchant success rates. I agree that the rates should be known beforehand but in gambling you always run the risk of getting nothing in return and you must be prepared for it before engaging. Comments like 'I paid X amount of money thus I am entitled to a +7 shirt' can easily turn into 'I pay Y amount of money to have Valakas as a summon pet' and lead to 'I am willing to pay Z amount of money so that I can PK everyone just by being in the same area as their toons'. It is acceptable if the company and the majority of the community is willing to go down this road but at least properly advertise it so.
Sorry for the long post. Once more, the point is not about how powerful these shirts are or aren't, it is not about who can and who can't pay. It is about if the community wants a 'truly' free game or instead prefers to open the Pandora's box of cash-only items that will progressively change the nature of the game.
$170 will buy my groceries for two weeks and then some or pay my cell phone bill and then some or my cable/internet bill and then some. Well you get the point. I chose to pay my bills over tossing it to a chance at game item.
I agree its good money. The matter of fact is I have it to blow. Doesn't mean it didn't sting. ITs a gamble plain and simple and not one I'd look forward to do again.
It's not really about how frequently you'll come across someone wearing a +10 shirt.
Admittedly, it would obviously be worse if +10 shirts (or of any enchant level worth a ****) were common, but it's about when and where you'll run into that +10 shirt.
For much of the time, certain class heroes are determined by the slightest point margins.
Now, imagine if you ended up 2nd place to someone only because your opponent, who ended up 1st, had a +7 Pa'agrio's Shirt and you didn't. You have effectively lost hero for not paying to win.
Olympiad isn't the only place where that would manifest itself as an issue - imagine getting ganked by someone, or being unable to kill someone you normally would before they're able to PR/BSOE/port out through an NPC.
But, it's also the cumulative effects of past, current and future pay-to-win items that are a problem.
Those who are willing to shell out thousands on these shirts are likely willing to have also poured similar amounts of money on previous and future pay-to-win items. Let's say that you're a lvl 85 mage. Does facing down a rogue in hide (assuming that you're not cheating) with a 5 second UD and red weapon sound fun to you? How about when you add in other pay-to-win items that NCSoft definitely has planned for sale in the future?
And let's all be honest here, those who are willing to pay-to-win are probably more likely to employ various cheating tools in order to play-to-win. Paying-to-win fits fine in the psyche of those who wish to win-at-all-costs, so it shouldn't be much of a stretch to assume that win-at-all-costs players are more likely to employ some combination of both pay-to-win and cheating to achieve that goal.
Ignoring that as a mere conjecture, you can at least assume that at least some of the mass amounts of pvp cheaters that run rampant in the servers today also pay-to-win.
So, the scenario becomes you (a lvl 85 mage) vs. a rogue with a 5 second UD and red weapon who is also all Rangered/Ctrled up. That sounds like real fun there.
that's the thing....nobody has a +10 shirt. i doubt there ever will be until ncsoft makes changes in success rates. as for having the advantage on pvp...maybe if it was a 1v1 there might be a difference, but in 7v7 or mass pvp, these items don't make much of a difference. the only item that really made a difference was the destruction scrolls. other than that, i don't see any item in the L2 store that has really been a gamechanger.
Aion is one of the most popular mmos in the west right now.Part of it is because of how good the game actually can be because of all the patches and updates...part of it is because there is simply nothing better to play for some players right now so they settle....and part of it is because of the truly free model of only selling fluff/xp items and the entire game actually being free.That will be short lived though once they start selling power shirts and when guild wars 2 launches...these smaller mmos arent even going to know what hit them.
More pay2win items? naiz!
The only thing that keeps me wondering is when you guys are actually putting Valakas/Antharas/Trasken/Tauti/Octavis epic jewery in the L2Store, this is absolutely the only thing you haven't done yet, it's a must.Blessed Valakas for only 20k NC coin, for a limited time only !
Revenues were down 12% from last year to $130 million, of which a vast majority came from NCsoft's online titles. The company stated that it dipped into the red due to rising labor costs, an increased marketing budget for Blade & Soul's (http://massively.joystiq.com/category/blade-and-soul) Korean launch, and the acquisition of Ntreev (http://massively.joystiq.com/tag/ntreev/). Aion (http://massively.joystiq.com/category/aion/) was also blamed for the company's financial woes, as revenues in that title sharply decreased due to fewer microtransaction sales.
Both Lineage (http://massively.joystiq.com/category/lineage) titles composed a great share of the company's revenues, with the first game producing 45% of sales and the sequel 13%.
NCsoft said that it is banking on Guild Wars 2 to produce a profitable third quarter, however.
... One more thing,maybe need answer from Yidao here,in korean server the coins shop works like ours?Or if i remember correct,koreans play from netcafe using some timecards/points system,points they can cash outinto coins to buy the shop items(like we did when servers became f2p with the rest of gamingtime it was left in our acount), while we ,have to pay the best internet connection and buy the best computer and pay every month for additional program to elliminate the lag of server and then need to pay for monthly vitality items AND the new shop item game shows you need to have.
For Ncwest people information,this is how much their ''f2p'' kind of game cost us in my country(salarys are the same in all south europe and its even worst in some european countrys)
-new strong computer (around 1.500 euro,not for top computer ofc, also dont think everyone would keep boosting his computer or buy new one in the middle of economic crisis if there was not l2 involved)
-monthly internet provider,50 euro per month
-lowerping for lag,7e per month
-monthly coins for vitality items,atleast 50 euro,average is 100 euro and the ''big players'' spent atleast 200-400 euro.
-item every 3-4 months player see he ''has'' to buy no matter if he can afford it or not(like these shirts),~ 70 euro
(i exclude the items for people with rich daddy,like the packages with destruction scrolls ect,on such stuff players pay around 3000 euro each time)
.the montly salary for a person who has university degree and works 10+ years is less than 900 euro(halph of them go to loans and taxis)
.the lowest monthly salary for a young working person is 230 euro(he cant pay rent and he is lucky if his parents can feed him)
Do the maths and decide if Ncwest system is affordable for the average player.
That's basically right, but the system is very complicated. The "PC" on the little annoying window, which stands in the English version for "Player Commendation", means originally "PC Cafe Points"/PC방 포인트: http://power.plaync.co.kr/lineage2/PC%EB%B0%A9+%ED%8F%AC%EC%9D%B8%ED%8A%B8+%EC%A1%B4
When you are logged in at a netcafe which has a contract with NCsoft (which enables you to buy game time there by just handing over cash) you get PC Cafe Points, as of last Wednesday 10 Points every 5 minutes: http://power.plaync.co.kr/lineage2/%EB%A9%94%EC%95%84%EB%A6%AC+%EB%84%A4+%EB%B2%88%EC %A7%B8+%EC%9A%B8%EB%A6%BC#hd92042
With these PC Cafe Points you then buy items, i.e. a part of the game time you purchase is automatically converted into NCoin.
This whole system serves of course the only purpose to hide the actual cost of the game. You get a better impression when you look at the monthly subscription (which nobody uses because it's so expensive). Lineage 2 costs 29,700 Won resp. 30 dollars per month (for comparison, Aion is 19,800 Won resp. 20 dollars). But that's just what you pay NCsoft. In addition to that you have the computer time at the netcafe. That can greatly vary, depending on the sort of computers they have, whether you are a club member or not etc. In an moderately good internet cafe you pay as a club member the price of a small bowl of noodles per hour; if you just walk in, one hour costs you the equivalent of a big bowl of noodles. Then people have ice tea, often also snacks ... You can spend a considerable amount of money in a Korean netcafe. The advantage is, you don't have to worry about the hardware. The owner makes sure that the computers are always state of the art. This saves you a lot of money. Also they don't need battleping or anything like that (Korea is a small country with short and very good telecommunication lines). Most Koreans have a smartphone or a "typewriter computer" at home, so they have to pay for an internet provider.
Koreans have on average a higher level of education than people in the USA or even in Europe, which means the average income is higher. But they also have a higher cost of living (especially the rent), which means they don't have much more disposable cash than we. Korean players have always been complaining about Lineage 2 being too expensive. Nevertheless Business Team Leader Kim Jin-a (the woman all the way on the left on the second photo) won't budge. Nothing will be changed in the basic tariffs: http://www.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=390&l=961
This is the Korean situation. But since NCWest is at the moment operating at a monthly loss (http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx) of 2 million dollars (as opposed to a monthly loss of 1 million dollars in 2010), I seriously doubt whether the powers that be can be talked into a less profiteering approach over here.
Don't forget to mail all your items to ME... if you are on Chronos. I need various items to drop when I am killed in the line of duty, makes PK Hunters very happy when they pick up my trinkets for some reason.
Peasants receive much joy when their masters bequeath them with common gifts.
that's the thing....nobody has a +10 shirt. i doubt there ever will be until ncsoft makes changes in success rates. as for having the advantage on pvp...maybe if it was a 1v1 there might be a difference, but in 7v7 or mass pvp, these items don't make much of a difference. the only item that really made a difference was the destruction scrolls. other than that, i don't see any item in the L2 store that has really been a gamechanger.
As I implied in my previous reply, it doesn't need to be a +10 shirt - a +7 would be sufficient.
In 7v7 and mass pvp, these items actually still do make a difference, especially when combined with the near-unrestricted use of cheat programs and in combination with other pay-to-win items that have been released (red weapons from destruction scrolls) and will inevitably be released in the future.
It's the incremental, combined gains over opponents over time that often make the difference in this game. The extra survivability afforded by 5 seconds of UD (along with all the other bonuses like run speed) can make the difference in your party winning a given fight.
I agree its good money. The matter of fact is I have it to blow. Doesn't mean it didn't sting. ITs a gamble plain and simple and not one I'd look forward to do again.
I guess I'm just not the type of person who thinks anything in that store is worth dropping that much in a single purchase. I hope people are more careful and stop buying gamble type items.
I guess I'm just not the type of person who thinks anything in that store is worth dropping that much in a single purchase. I hope people are more careful and stop buying gamble type items.
Well I purchased the nccoin in 3 different transactions lol
Well I purchased the nccoin in 3 different transactions lol
hehehe I have no issue with what others do, it's none of my business or my money :) I'm sorry it didn't go as you planned though. I hate seeing people lose money that way.
I'm sorry but this is bull crap i used 210+ enchant and ether I'm super unlucky or the % chance is crap. Really NC-soft 210+ scrolls and nothing went +7 NOTHING this shirt thing suck so much *** and I'm not joking or trolling this is really trash and i don't care this crap no one do this crap its stupid.
things like this makes pirate servers fail, with custom stuff, OP and invincible ppl.
buying stuff shouldn't give advantage over another ppl.
nc, next time u better sell +25 eternal set in 30k coins....
Does the teleport shirt work in Gracia? Because the My Teleport scrolls you sell don't work in gracia and there is no text to warn you that they won't work in gracia.
Does the teleport shirt work in Gracia? Because the My Teleport scrolls you sell don't work in gracia and there is no text to warn you that they won't work in gracia.
Better if, that NCoins what you buy spend the Rune of XP and Vitality items or Subclass XP Bottles than to these shirts.
Many of us who is legit still not 99, maybe we aren't so far from it, but still we aren't lvl 99, so until the best if we spend to fix XP boost stuffs.
I mostly spend to Lineage 2 about 60-65$ per month, so if I achieve the max level and if only those shirts missing and maybe the NC put them to the L2 Store again maybe I give a try to these but until no.
Also I guess I can kill in PvP anyone who is in same level as me but he has +10 shirt, while I haven't shirt.
Also if you feel, that some items aren't good in the L2 Store, than you mustn't buy them.
NCwest told, already told in Spring, that they will put back again one time to the L2 Store these shirts.
Well, now they did it, if most of you can't like it, than lets hope they did put it back in, that lottery form in last time.
i love it when people QQ when these enhancement items are introduced into the game. yes, the +10 shirts look powerful and it would be great to have, but seriously why cry like anyone can just get a +10? when they introduced the first power shirts, people cried that it was overpowered. at +10, yes it would be overpowered, but what server had a +10? the server i played on, the highest anyone has ever got was a +8! so stop your crying everybody and let ncsoft make thier money, if you want to help them, then buy thier products, it is a free game.
the only thing i will admit is unfair was the sale of destruction scrolls. other than that, power shirts/gatekeeper hats/element shirts......don't make that great of a difference. i know a few characters that p2w and they still die to people that know how to play the game.
You don't need a +10 shirt to change the outcome of a oly match between two hero hopefuls. Player (A) normally beats player (B) by a smal margin, even though they both have active reflect augments, but now player (B) shows up with a +7 shirt that reduces reflect DMG by 5%, and now he wins almost every match between them and that gets him hero. Or in an Iss fight between two dark elf enchanters both land suspension twice, and both have used dispiration and a cleanse talisman to remove the debuffs, but now one of them has a +7 shirt and so he has a third cleanse to use. In enchanter class based fights, he who keeps suspension on his opponent, and removes it from himself, will almost always win.
Those are just two examples of how that makes a difference big enough change who gets hero. Luckily for me, I had already told my clan that this was my last month of farming hero, so I don't have to feel obligated to drop 400+ bucks on this, but neither I, nor anyone else, should be put in that position. It drives people to consider quitting, perhaps not the non-factor Dracha Von Down Syndromes of the server, who don't compete and just waste their time Pking bots that don't care, but it does drive off people that might otherwise want to spend 100 bucks a month but not 400 or 500.
Oh and tldr version of my above post: some shifty Korean you have never met sees you all as a fat kid cash cow that can be milked and then sacrificed to improve their faltering bottom line.
You don't need a +10 shirt to change the outcome of a oly match between two hero hopefuls. Player (A) normally beats player (B) by a smal margin, even though they both have active reflect augments, but now player (B) shows up with a +7 shirt that reduces reflect DMG by 5%, and now he wins almost every match between them and that gets him hero.
.... but it does drive off people that might otherwise want to spend 100 bucks a month but not 400 or 500.
it is gambling and using addiction to take people hundreds of euro out of their pocket. Something the casinos in las vegas do everyday. They could offer such a shirt for 100 euro +10, but instead they use the fact that people can't stop themselves to spend 4 times that much. Every time upping the enchant level required to get the super stats.
for those that don't want to click on Yidao's link the important message there is that the reflect damage resist aspect of the shirts DOES NOT WORK.
so to recap:
- only get this shirt if you can afford to blow up at least 100$
- don't expect to get anything past max +7 (+6 will be around 200$ if you're lucky so do the math for +7)
- if you already have a power shirt of +6 or higher ask yourself if the +20 Elemental resists, +1 DEX/WIT and 3% MP cost reduction are really worth it
all in all this is just about buyers be aware as all you get offered here is a low, very low, chance on something very nice with the awesome parts being statistically impossible to achieve unless you spent ~10K USD
it is gambling and using addiction to take people hundreds of euro out of their pocket. Something the casinos in las vegas do everyday. They could offer such a shirt for 100 euro +10, but instead they use the fact that people can't stop themselves to spend 4 times that much. Every time upping the enchant level required to get the super stats.
for a +10 shirt you will need a lot more then just a few 100 euro, this was already calculated when we had the Power Shirt stuff going on and there it was explained you would need to spent a minimum of 10K USD to have a chance of succeeding so yeah lol..
but on a brighter note this shirt is the last P2W item NC Korea made so far as they received a lot of negative feedback from their own customer base on it so chance of getting such item again in store will be slim.
for a +10 shirt you will need a lot more then just a few 100 euro, this was already calculated when we had the Power Shirt stuff going on and there it was explained you would need to spent a minimum of 10K USD to have a chance of succeeding so yeah lol..
but on a brighter note this shirt is the last P2W item NC Korea made so far as they received a lot of negative feedback from their own customer base on it so chance of getting such item again in store will be slim.
yes, 100 euro for air, a virtual item in a game, is a lot and yes they pay A LOT more then this. Gambling is strictly regulated in most countries, because people can't control the urge. This is outside any regulation (yet) in a game with teen rating. Don't care 100%, but it seems kind of wrong to me.
You don't need a +10 shirt to change the outcome of a oly match between two hero hopefuls. Player (A) normally beats player (B) by a smal margin, even though they both have active reflect augments, but now player (B) shows up with a +7 shirt that reduces reflect DMG by 5%, and now he wins almost every match between them and that gets him hero. Or in an Iss fight between two dark elf enchanters both land suspension twice, and both have used dispiration and a cleanse talisman to remove the debuffs, but now one of them has a +7 shirt and so he has a third cleanse to use. In enchanter class based fights, he who keeps suspension on his opponent, and removes it from himself, will almost always win.
Tbh that reflect damage resist is so bad, that i think you wouldnt even notice of its effect, it works like this:
It gives 5% resist of reflected damage, example you got 20% of reflect and you reflected 200 damage, this 5% of resist will reduce by 10, in other word reflected damage will be 190 instead of 200.
About shirts i just see good thing in it is +2 stats and +7 speed same like was with powershirts (+6), well resists also good thing, but you can max out resists with istina/octavis jewels.
Power of Pa'agrio can still be used even when you have the 1 minute Lingering Protection debuff that prevents you from casting another celestial spell.
Juji,
There is a large set of evidence that suggests the new shirts have many bugs with them and features listed do not work as advertised at all!
Evidently things got so bad in Taiwan / Korea that these items were all pulled from the itemshop stores.
Can you confirm that all aspects of the +7 or higher shirt are working as advertised so the catastrophe that occurred in those territories does not repeat here?
Easy Test:
Two L99 Tyrr Warriors
Cast Freezing Skin on one tyr warrior.
Have the other tyrr use mega strike (no damage varance) and record the amount reflected.
Have the attacking tyr equip a +7 paagrio shirt (or equiv) and repeat the test and note if the reflect damage decreases.
Optionally equip other reflect resist items such as the mysterious 3 day belt / desire/longing talisman and note if the reflect resist stacks.
It should be absolutely clear if people are going to invest lots of ncoin that they do not get mislead on what they are buying.
while you are about it, please also check the increased resistance to Lethal Hits and Half-Kills which is supposed to come with a +8 Maphr's Shirt. You might be on the safe side there, because nobody will get their Shirt to +8 anyway, but tests in Korea have shown that this effect also doesn't work. You will find Cady's test setup under "Experiment 2" about halfway down here: http://www.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=390&l=859
Reading these, it seems I got lucky on mine...I blew going to +5, then I bought 7 more and...............+7 Paagrio Shirt!!! not going to try anymore...success rates sound CrApPy!
The enchant rates listed in this posting are incorrect.
My tests have shown out of 210 enchant scrolls:
No +6 shirts.
I was hoping to get a +7 shirt so I took the odds that were posted here, doubled it, bought that much nc coin and tried my best. I bought 3 shirts, enchanted them up together and now I have nothing but 3 useless shirts. I could've kept a +5 shirt, but what's the point, I still have a +6 one form the last time they did this.
Maybe I try again in 6 months when they come out with a better shirt that will replace these shirts.
Just wanted to post so everyone would know the results posted from that foreign website ARE NOT the same odds that we have on our servers.
In the future I'd like to suggest to Sace/Juji, put something in place so if you spend enough money you get something for it. I feel ripped off.
These shirts are pay to win and anyone who says otherwise is either deluding themselves or an idiot. These shirts give you a definite star advantage which cannot be obtained through any method other than by buying these shirts though the cash shop along with the enchant scrolls that can also only be bought at the cash shop.
Saying that this is fair because life isn't fair only shows you have no argument and fail to understand the difference between a virtual world where nothing exists and the real world that is being destroyed by overpopulation and the free market.
In the real world we have to deal with finite resources and poor resource distribution which was already divided out and apportioned before we were born. A life in such a world as ours is indeed unfair, but that doesn't mean it needs to be so. And that is one reason why using such a statement will always discredit your argument as you are trying to prop up your argument with a logical fallacy.
In a MMO nothing actually exists and anything which could be thought of as existing could be created virtually on a whim at no or nominal cost.
Obviously in the real world every person can't own 10 megamansions on 100 square miles of property each because there is only so much land to build on and so much building materials to build with, that does not therefore mean that every person in this game can't be given a free +10 version of each of these new shirts. They are nonexistent items whose creation does not consume a large amount of a finite resource.
And in sports, even teams of poorly geared poverty stricken basketball players could hope to defeat a professional team of millionaire players. In the real world genes and drive are able to overcome wealth. In the virtual world of a MMO this is quite untrue because the movement of numbers being crunched behind the scenes is the only thing that truly determines the outcome of any event. If the only difference between players is stats, and the difference is enough to overcome RNG hurdles then the player with the most stats on their gear will always win simply because they have more stats and there is nothing the other player can do about it.
In the real world we hear about and love underdog stories because it is possible to overcome differences in the real world through drive but we have no underdog stories in MMOs because stats are made too important.
These items give unfair advantages to players who buy them even though there is no reason why players should not be able to get them for free.
If you want to compete you will now have to start buying items with NCoin as NC will continue to introduce more and more items which are only available from the cash shop which give unfair advantages. Given time NC may very well roll out enough items like this which make it impossible to compete unless you buy them all. And that would mean the game is not truly free since in order to be truly free you must be able to partake in the game in the same manner regardless of whether or not you pay with the same expected outcome for each activity. The moment you cannot is the moment this game is no longer truly free.
These shirts are pay to win and anyone who says otherwise is either deluding themselves or an idiot. These shirts give you a definite star advantage which cannot be obtained through any method other than by buying these shirts though the cash shop along with the enchant scrolls that can also only be bought at the cash shop.
Saying that this is fair because life isn't fair only shows you have no argument and fail to understand the difference between a virtual world where nothing exists and the real world that is being destroyed by overpopulation and the free market.
In the real world we have to deal with finite resources and poor resource distribution which was already divided out and apportioned before we were born. A life in such a world as ours is indeed unfair, but that doesn't mean it needs to be so. And that is one reason why using such a statement will always discredit your argument as you are trying to prop up your argument with a logical fallacy.
In a MMO nothing actually exists and anything which could be thought of as existing could be created virtually on a whim at no or nominal cost.
Obviously in the real world every person can't own 10 megamansions on 100 square miles of property each because there is only so much land to build on and so much building materials to build with, that does not therefore mean that every person in this game can't be given a free +10 version of each of these new shirts. They are nonexistent items whose creation does not consume a large amount of a finite resource.
And in sports, even teams of poorly geared poverty stricken basketball players could hope to defeat a professional team of millionaire players. In the real world genes and drive are able to overcome wealth. In the virtual world of a MMO this is quite untrue because the movement of numbers being crunched behind the scenes is the only thing that truly determines the outcome of any event. If the only difference between players is stats, and the difference is enough to overcome RNG hurdles then the player with the most stats on their gear will always win simply because they have more stats and there is nothing the other player can do about it.
In the real world we hear about and love underdog stories because it is possible to overcome differences in the real world through drive but we have no underdog stories in MMOs because stats are made too important.
These items give unfair advantages to players who buy them even though there is no reason why players should not be able to get them for free.
If you want to compete you will now have to start buying items with NCoin as NC will continue to introduce more and more items which are only available from the cash shop which give unfair advantages. Given time NC may very well roll out enough items like this which make it impossible to compete unless you buy them all. And that would mean the game is not truly free since in order to be truly free you must be able to partake in the game in the same manner regardless of whether or not you pay with the same expected outcome for each activity. The moment you cannot is the moment this game is no longer truly free.
SO WHAT! If people wanna pay for this stuff to give them your "so called advantage" then so be it. Seriously, its getting old everyone QQ'n over each others feelings on Free to play,Pay to play, and Pay to win....its not going to change , if you dont like it.....dont buy the stuff and or dont play.
When the game was pay to play I had no issue with plopping down $15 per account every month. Now that it is free to play I refuse to buy a single item because of the obvious slippery slope that leads from cosmetic only to pay to win as we are now seeing.
Plus the value simply isn't there for me. Maybe I am just too old and so can't understand the idea of paying $10 for some pixels showing a hat on my avatar.
SO WHAT! If people wanna pay for this stuff to give them your "so called advantage" then so be it. Seriously, its getting old everyone QQ'n over each others feelings on Free to play,Pay to play, and Pay to win....its not going to change , if you dont like it.....dont buy the stuff and or dont play.
Why should anyone be willing to accept such an unfair money grubbing system?
Should we be happy to still be living in Sinclair's jungle? To have 1/3 of all the land devoted exclusively to the king for hunting? The horrors of the extermination camps?
You have no argument other than your opinion (which I obviously disagree with) whereas my side has actual facts, chiefly that these items violate the game selling itself as truly free to play.
Why should anyone be willing to accept such an unfair money grubbing system?
Should we be happy to still be living in Sinclair's jungle? To have 1/3 of all the land devoted exclusively to the king for hunting? The horrors of the extermination camps?
You have no argument other than your opinion (which I obviously disagree with) whereas my side has actual facts, chiefly that these items violate the game selling itself as truly free to play.
1) Its a GAME!
2) Noone Makes you play this or BUY the items in store!
3) Whether you like it or not....its not going to change!
4) Its a GAME!
6) You Can play this as "truely free to play"
7) You skipped 5!
8) You just looked, didnt you.
9) Life isnt Fair, so what makes you think a game will be any different!
Why should anyone be willing to accept such an unfair money grubbing system?
Should we be happy to still be living in Sinclair's jungle? To have 1/3 of all the land devoted exclusively to the king for hunting? The horrors of the extermination camps?
You have no argument other than your opinion (which I obviously disagree with) whereas my side has actual facts, chiefly that these items violate the game selling itself as truly free to play.
I understand your side of it,but there are actual points that validate whether its fair or unfair. The game itself is completely free. However there is the "option" to buy things. Some of them help you cosmetically,some to level and some help you with your stats. The stat enhancing items are offered to everyone in all fairness. If you don't or can't purchase them then it puts your character at a disadvantage, but it's not technically unfair because everyone CAN buy the items so to say it's unfair is a little incorrect.
It's like epic raid jewels, I don't have them,but the toon next to me does. That's not considered unfair because I could obtain it in the same number of ways they did just like you could with the shirt so really it is fair. Just depends on if you want to pay to gamble at getting a shirt to +7 or more. I personally don't think the shirt is going to significantly impact game play that much PVE wise, If you are that hardcore PvP then you'd be darn well trying to get a shirt to be competitive.
I spent so much money in this *****, and all I got its a +6. My advice for those who wants to spend money like me is, don't spend your money in this item, because the chance do get +7 is so small that they will stole all your money in this. IF nsoft dream someday to became a reliable enterprise, don't lie to us like in this comment by juji "1. No, the chance to OE the shirts is higher than the regular armor enchant rate.". The enchant chance is very, very, very low.
SO WHAT! If people wanna pay for this stuff to give them your "so called advantage" then so be it. Seriously, its getting old everyone QQ'n over each others feelings on Free to play,Pay to play, and Pay to win....its not going to change , if you dont like it.....dont buy the stuff and or dont play.
You play here for 1 month and you think you have any more perception about how it works here more than anyone playing 1 year more?
NC has crossed a lot of boundaries that you are not aware of, this is another one of them to put on the black list, and even more is that the item IS bugged, and NC didn't even mention it in the first place and they are still quiet about it, go ahead and waste your money on something that doesnt work properly.
You play here for 1 month and you think you have any more perception about how it works here more than anyone playing 1 year more?
NC has crossed a lot of boundaries that you are not aware of, this is another one of them to put on the black list, and even more is that the item IS bugged, and NC didn't even mention it in the first place and they are still quiet about it, go ahead and waste your money on something that doesnt work properly.
............I've played for more than one month , try since 2004 off and on due to military deployments and RL! So I know alittle of whats happened! lol And I can waste my money if I wish to do so...however Im not going to QQ about it whether good or bad outcome, it was and always will be MY DECISION to make a purchase.
lot's of ppl here that should never go to las Veags thou lolz
No kidding lol, yea I spent 65$ and got nothing but it's whatever. Yea it sucks but just think I could've had a +6 or +7. Gamble baby! Either sad or happy! :cool:
-new strong computer (around 1.500 euro,not for top computer ofc, also dont think everyone would keep boosting his computer or buy new one in the middle of economic crisis if there was not l2 involved)
-monthly internet provider,50 euro per month
-lowerping for lag,7e per month
-monthly coins for vitality items,atleast 50 euro,average is 100 euro and the ''big players'' spent atleast 200-400 euro.
-item every 3-4 months player see he ''has'' to buy no matter if he can afford it or not(like these shirts),~ 70 euro
(i exclude the items for people with rich daddy,like the packages with destruction scrolls ect,on such stuff players pay around 3000 euro each time)
.the montly salary for a person who has university degree and works 10+ years is less than 900 euro(halph of them go to loans and taxis)
.the lowest monthly salary for a young working person is 230 euro(he cant pay rent and he is lucky if his parents can feed him)
Do the maths and decide if Ncwest system is affordable for the average player.
It's not just down to being able to afford it.
UK average salary £26,000/yr about £1450/month after taxes.
Good PC £400 (I didn't say BEST PC - a fair spec one will play L2 without issues).
Internet £20/month
LowerPing - i don't need it. but lets go with your £7/month
NCCoins.. - I don't usually buy them - occasionally perhaps.
Personally I earn considerably more than the average, and I play L2 quite a lot. Before f2p I was playing 4 accounts which is £40/month (US$60) and I said, as long as I don't spend more than my current monthly amount, it's all good for me.
I think I have spent a total of about £30 or so since f2p, so a saving of (9 months * 40 = £360).
I can take a try on the shirts, and possibly will, but if it ends up at +0 will I cry? hmm probably to myself but that's life.
1. No, the chance to OE the shirts is higher than the regular armor enchant rate.
2. The enchant bonus is not flat. It increases the success rate of the base enchant value, so the 2nd part of your question is correct.
I am going to have to call BS on this.....
I just went through 180 Scrolls and got to +6 TWICE.....
Let me repeat that TWICE, as in 2 times out of 180 scrolls.......
I am all for gambling but this seems like a much, much lower success rate than regular armor and not having regular scrolls results in alot of wasted bless scrolls. If I did not get BEWR from the Gamestop cards I would quit playing. This is just lol ridiculous.
EDIT: I recorded all my attempts and when I went over it again and did the math I used over 65% of my "blessed" scrolls just getting from +0 to +3. That is messed up and the more I think about it the more frustrated I get............
Evidently things got so bad in Taiwan / Korea that these items were all pulled from the itemshop stores.
Can you confirm that all aspects of the +7 or higher shirt are working as advertised so the catastrophe that occurred in those territories does not repeat here?
Easy Test:
Two L99 Tyrr Warriors
Cast Freezing Skin on one tyr warrior.
Have the other tyrr use mega strike (no damage varance) and record the amount reflected.
Have the attacking tyr equip a +7 paagrio shirt (or equiv) and repeat the test and note if the reflect damage decreases.
Optionally equip other reflect resist items such as the mysterious 3 day belt / desire/longing talisman and note if the reflect resist stacks.
It should be absolutely clear if people are going to invest lots of ncoin that they do not get mislead on what they are buying.
We're currently looking into this now.
That's basically right, but the system is very complicated.
This whole system serves of course the only purpose to hide the actual cost of the game. You get a better impression when you look at the monthly subscription (which nobody uses because it's so expensive). Lineage 2 costs 29,700 Won resp. 30 dollars per month (for comparison, Aion is 19,800 Won resp. 20 dollars). But that's just what you pay NCsoft. In addition to that you have the computer time at the netcafe.
This is the Korean situation. But since NCWest is at the moment operating at a monthly loss (http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx) of 2 million dollars (as opposed to a monthly loss of 1 million dollars in 2010), I seriously doubt whether the powers that be can be talked into a less profiteering approach over here.
Hi Elmar,so i did remembered right.
From your numbers and the numbers i've provided,we can see easily,active european players pay higher than koreans and get less of game.
About Ncwest loss,im sorry they can't understand how to make profits.All these years they made so many customers and they managed to make them leave.From us,their last remaining customers,they cant ''catch'' the meaning of selling a game,game has to be full of cute things,goals and treats for the people,not a money-suck machine.If people have a good time in the game and you give them options to live more happy moments,people will spent more money,like they do when they are having a great time on vacations and they pay to get more entertaintment or do shopping.And remember,people are not having vacations inside l2,game forces them to efforts many times higher than what their real life work does,it is obvious they expect to get inside game rewards for all they do as ''payment'' for their work.
I can give so many examples,look all these wortless but cute hats,really how many players will spent 25 euros when inside game they have to find adena and buy the stats hats.Why Ncwest not to give gifts to players that buy coins every month,or even to players that are more than 1 year,gifts like an agathion of your choise,or hat or whatever fashion thing,horse,lower the price of vitality items and ofcourse put vitality events every 3 months.Also,keep in coin shop some stuff for atleast 3 months,like the ''rose buff'',the special cake,the destruction scrolls,understand not all player can have these cash right now,but if game is enough appealing to them,they can make some monthly scedule for the items they want.Why not awaken system to continue after 85lvl and include some free items like vit pots/ewr/elixiris/xp runes ect on every lvl?
Give joy to players like this game was made to do and then you can expect players to spent on your buissnes their entertaintment money.
Sooooooo at the end of the day isn't this just alittle to much like online gambling? I mean so many are using rlm to take a spin on a fake payday even if the shirt does go to +7. Ncsoft have a gambling license? Just askin......And GL to all the shirt players, maybe the house doesn't always win.
Mix videogames and gambling for profits and you got yourself deep pockets filled, players are just too weak, always falling for same strategy.
It's something new and shiny and people bought it out of impulse thinking yeah this package has the shirt and 30 scrolls I can do +7. yeah not so much.
Sooooooo at the end of the day isn't this just alittle to much like online gambling? I mean so many are using rlm to take a spin on a fake payday even if the shirt does go to +7. Ncsoft have a gambling license? Just askin......And GL to all the shirt players, maybe the house doesn't always win.
Yeah quite a few people think this is possibly illegal in many places, but who knows really.
The only thing that aggravates me off is how clueless NCwest is when releasing these items (No flames its fact) You guys advertise p2w items with broken skills, and spew miss information on the forums about said skills and said rates. The fact you cant reveal the enchant rate is hilarious in itself but beyond that the fact that you have to use bless scrolls to go from +0 to +3 is trololol. When has this ever been normal in lineage 2. We've always had the option to enchant EVERYTHING with regular scrolls, be it going +2 to +3 or +10 to +11. Never HAD to use a blessed scroll. Its like your selling us a Lamborghini when all we asked for was a Mercedes =/
Glad I dont buy these items, GL to those who purchased them :D
I just went through 180 Scrolls and got to +6 TWICE.....
Let me repeat that TWICE, as in 2 times out of 180 scrolls.......
I am all for gambling but this seems like a much, much lower success rate than regular armor and not having regular scrolls results in alot of wasted bless scrolls. If I did not get BEWR from the Gamestop cards I would quit playing. This is just lol ridiculous.
EDIT: I recorded all my attempts and when I went over it again and did the math I used over 65% of my "blessed" scrolls just getting from +0 to +3. That is messed up and the more I think about it the more frustrated I get............
I would say you got lucky... 100+ scrolls and I only got 3 to +5....
It's a good idea to make suggestions, and give constructive criticism. It's not helpful, however, to just spew negative complaints that only make more arguments and spawn more negative feelings.
We want more people to play, right? 1000 people paying $20 is better than 200 people paying $100. . . Yes, the sales tactics are bad; yes, the product this time was not designed with good customer satisfaction in mind... But pointless arguments do not help NCWest help you, nor does it keep people playing this game.
If you don't like the item of the month, don't buy it. If you bought it, live with what you willingly decided to do. Make suggestions on better ways to market ideas that make players happy AND that make NCSoft money. Play the game if you choose, and invite others to play with you. The more people play, the more will pay. Maybe with more profit, they will not have to devise such desperate measures to stay afloat.
I'm neither defending the company nor the idea of the shirts; but rather, the big picture of the community playing the game, and the choice you have whether or not to buy extra items.
---
~Rj
=)
Juji, please take a look at this post: http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=243897&page=10#195
People apparently do not realize that a failed enchantment attempt resets your Shirt to +0 and then you have to be lucky again to get it to +4, and even if you should succeed with this, you must be really lucky to get it to +5, while in the majority of cases your shirt will go back to +0. Then you must be lucky again to get it to +4 ...
In your Lab Requests Thread you wrote that testing the enchant rate for +7 and +9 Maphr's Shirt is not feasible. But couldn't you at least test the fate of one Shirt while going to +9, just noting the ups and downs, like you did with a Seed Talisman: http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=241561#6
Please do not only note how many Enchantment Scrolls you needed over all, but also how much this cost you. Not only in NCoins but in US Dollars and Euros. As a responsible NCsoft employee you must do everything to prevent people from buying those shirts. 向天兒同志学习 (http://chineseposters.net/gallery/e13-13.php), as Chairman Mao would have said - Learn from Comrade ChildOfHeaven!
Juji, please take a look at this post: http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=243897&page=10#195
People apparently do not realize that a failed enchantment attempt resets your Shirt to +0 and then you have to be lucky again to get it to +4, and even if you should succeed with this, you must be really lucky to get it to +5, while in the majority of cases your shirt will go back to +0. Then you must be lucky again to get it to +4 ...
In your Lab Requests Thread you wrote that testing the enchant rate for +7 and +9 Maphr's Shirt is not feasible. But couldn't you at least test the fate of one Shirt while going to +9, just noting the ups and downs, like you did with a Seed Talisman: http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=241561#6
Please do not only note how many Enchantment Scrolls you needed over all, but also how much this cost you. Not only in NCoins but in US Dollars and Euros. As a responsible NCsoft employee you must do everything to prevent people from buying those shirts. 向天兒同志学习 (http://chineseposters.net/gallery/e13-13.php), as Chairman Mao would have said - Learn from Comrade ChildOfHeaven!
It says on the description of the Blessed Elemental Shirt Enchant Scroll in-game and on the Galleria that it will reset the shirt back to 0 if the enchant fails after +3.
I said it was not feasible to test the Maphr's Shirt passive enchant skill because I do not test the enchant rates for armor or weapons. As I said before, I cannot reveal or test the enchant rates for the elemental shirts.
We want more people to play, right? 1000 people paying $20 is better than 200 people paying $100. . . Yes, the sales tactics are bad; yes, the product this time was not designed with good customer satisfaction in mind... But pointless arguments do not help NCWest help you, nor does it keep people playing this game.
I get the feeling you were not long enough here to understand that constructive feedback has been given throughout the years, you may know more by reading Atarth's post above. Players have been helping more NC than NC has been helping us.
There's a ton of suggestions from western players that simply never make it into the game. Fact is, they cannot help us.
Negativity comes from being ignored in this game, which is the main problem players face.
the choice you have whether or not to buy extra items.
---
~Rj
=)
It's a choice alright, BUT it should not be a situation of "maybe". When I'm purchasing something anywhere not just a online game I want what I am told I'm getting. I don't want to buy into a "chance" at a product or item. NC kind of leads you on that the shirt is useful regardless of enchantment,but once you buy it you see what kind of money vampire you got yourself.
To prevent people from just "buying" a +10 shirt just make the destruction scroll only good for getting to +7. This seems reasonable since the marketing for this shirt is its special ability at +7.
It really seems disingenuous to promote this item, say that it is "easier" to get than a regular +7 piece of armor, and then see the vast majority of players fail to get it.
It says on the description of the Blessed Elemental Shirt Enchant Scroll in-game and on the Galleria that it will reset the shirt back to 0 if the enchant fails after +3.
I said it was not feasible to test the Maphr's Shirt passive enchant skill because I do not test the enchant rates for armor or weapons. As I said before, I cannot reveal or test the enchant rates for the elemental shirts.
Your playing a dangerous game ncsoft, do you have a licence for being a online casino?
$70 US down the drain +0 shirt all i got. wouldn't go past 4. NC SCAM DO NOT BUY AND WASTE YOUR MONEY. FALSE ADVERTISEMENT IS AGAINST THE LAW!!!!! what can be done is goto https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints/file-a-complaint/get-started. choose austin, texas. If response doesn't satisfy you. there can be a class action suit or can goto small claims court in austin, tx.
I think only players who are in Top 5 in Olympiad should even be allowed to complain about the Gamble Shirts. Ipwn is I know, who else? (Imo, no NC coin item should be usable in Oly.)
If some random person wants to drop $400 on a OP shirt, well, I'm glad that he's helping fund Lineage 2 for the rest of us. The one thing that keeps me from getting upset about these "p2w" items, is that the players who have lots of money, also have to put in lots of time. Buying a Rune doesn't give you exp; you still have to be out there grinding. And if you use 3rd-party-software for your exp, okay, that's cheating and you might get banned (money/time sink!). But you still have to be in Olympiad competing. You still have to be doing all the end game stuff. You still have to be playing A LOT.
So why now with NC coin, have we all stop complaining about the people who have the time to play a lot? Where's the griping about the no-lifers? Where's the depicting the small % advantages of the guys in their parents' basement, with their parents credit card, grinding 16 hours a day?
Life is no fair. Money isn't even half the problem. What about reflex time? Some people have better reflexes for button smashing. What about personalities? People with good personalities can get farther in a social game. What about rich kids? What about the economic differences among countries around the world? What about the children?
Don't be silly, I am not giving or taking away anyone's permission to play anything. However, if you complain you can't afford the items in a game you shouldn't be playing the game. I can't afford a horse, horse trainers, Polo Club fees and the cost of transporting all the Polo required items... so I don't play Polo. I sure don't go on the Polo forums complaining about how some are buying better equipment and well bred horses.
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++1
The problem with your logic is that polo (or specifically, the clubs/grounds where you'd presumably play polo) doesn't advertise itself as "Truly Free." There's reasonable expectation that in order to compete in polo, you would naturally need to purchase a horse, trainers, etc. This is one of the main reasons why soccer (football) and basketball are very popular around the world while sports like polo are relatively niche and contained within the most developed nations.
With the way that Lineage 2 works, in order to compete, you are required to buy these items as well, despite the game being advertised as "Truly Free." They are literally selling competitive advantage that you will have to purchase in order to compete on a reasonably equal level as those who do purchase these items.
NCSoft tries to justify adding these items to the game by saying that they don't make the game imbalanced "much" or (even more ridiculously) that their "popularity" (presumably determined by sales) suggests that the items don't create imbalances.
Don't be silly by trying to argue that they're not selling competitive advantage here. They are and have been operating on a pay-to-win model since Free to Play started. The only reason why they keep dancing around admitting it is because they realize that doing so would only confirm the suspicions of everyone concerned about it, turning the trickling of players out of the game with every new pay-to-win item release into a dam-bursting hemorrhage.
sorry it is free and your soooo mad.. all these items help keep up with bots get a job seriously
You don't need a +10 shirt to change the outcome of a oly match between two hero hopefuls. Player (A) normally beats player (B) by a smal margin, even though they both have active reflect augments, but now player (B) shows up with a +7 shirt that reduces reflect DMG by 5%, and now he wins almost every match between them and that gets him hero. Or in an Iss fight between two dark elf enchanters both land suspension twice, and both have used dispiration and a cleanse talisman to remove the debuffs, but now one of them has a +7 shirt and so he has a third cleanse to use. In enchanter class based fights, he who keeps suspension on his opponent, and removes it from himself, will almost always win.
Those are just two examples of how that makes a difference big enough change who gets hero. Luckily for me, I had already told my clan that this was my last month of farming hero, so I don't have to feel obligated to drop 400+ bucks on this, but neither I, nor anyone else, should be put in that position. It drives people to consider quitting, perhaps not the non-factor Dracha Von Down Syndromes of the server, who don't compete and just waste their time Pking bots that don't care, but it does drive off people that might otherwise want to spend 100 bucks a month but not 400 or 500.
way better if they made 25 x server sold all epics wed all have a blast
I agree its good money. The matter of fact is I have it to blow. Doesn't mean it didn't sting. ITs a gamble plain and simple and not one I'd look forward to do again. at least in gambling you have a chance//// used 60 enchants got +5... seriously its a joke
is it correct? The source is trustable?
If so, the real chance to get a +7 shirt is really really low !!! (if you can get the +6 prior, that´s difficult too)
no way those stats right .i have 3 shirts +7 and spent a ton
They are milking the cow and eventually will milk her dry.
Bartz= Dead
Magmeld=Dead
Shilen=Dead
These servers are dead they offered the transfers because thos three are on the block to be merged into 1. remember my post I am calling it here and now they are milking the transfers because soon the three servers mentioned will be one. NCSOFT keeps scamming people out of money with smoke and mirror items in store. I know they will delete this because I am 100% rite.
Actually if you be more careful of what you purchase and read the item details carefully you'll see buying items that are chance are not worth investing in. People see new shiney ***** and go "OMG IMMA BUYZORS" and then an hour later are blowing up the forums about being scammed and want a refund. I'm sorry to tell you this,but there will always be items like this in the future because when you buy an item like that it's a money machine. Buy a scroll and gamble on a successful enchant..repeat.
It's item like this who make me think that if you want to be a top player you need to buy in NCshop.
I'll prefer if the only think you can buy is : hair accessory, name change and think like this.
If i were rich for sure i'll buy one of these but i'm not gonna spend my little pay for think like that.
there is no need to buy stuff from "l2galeria/store".
i only buy 2 thinks, one was an unbind scroll to made my 300focus+4apoc bow standard at day 1 of gods.
until now, i level and farm super good without spending money, but i had one problem, i got the "free transfer" to a dead overpopulated bot server called magmeld, so i had to bought one transfer back to chronos, if i didnt made that choice, i ll 98 by now, unfortunaly i had to start from zero and now i m almost 93 and still looking and dreaming to find ppl with brain who want to level at guilhotine killing mandragoras non stop.
there is no need to buy stuff from "l2galeria/store".
i only buy 2 thinks, one was an unbind scroll to made my 300focus+4apoc bow standard at day 1 of gods.
until now, i level and farm super good without spending money, but i had one problem, i got the "free transfer" to a dead overpopulated bot server called magmeld, so i had to bought one transfer back to chronos, if i didnt made that choice, i ll 98 by now, unfortunaly i had to start from zero and now i m almost 93 and still looking and dreaming to find ppl with brain who want to level at guilhotine killing mandragoras non stop.
do like me dont buy!!!!!!!
Slightly off-topic:
No you wouldn't. Here's some perspective for you: 97--->98 with vit/rune/nevit is like 1.25% an hour. 98--->99 is ~1% an hour with the same set-up. I don't think I know anyone who has not brought vit items and/or bots and has made it past 95/96 yet. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
No you wouldn't. Here's some perspective for you: 97--->98 with vit/rune/nevit is like 1.25% an hour. 98--->99 is ~1% an hour with the same set-up. I don't think I know anyone who has not brought vit items and/or bots and has made it past 95/96 yet. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
i reach 90 at january 28 without cp, transfer to magmeld at february 1, dead server i retired my toon. start again on chronos level all suports first, run up adena, start my new archer, goes from 86 to 91 in 2 weeks. with brain ppl i would be 98, martel did, if he can anyone can.