Ok because a clan member bet me some adena on this I'll need an answer from either Juji or Sace.
So the question is what is the condition to end a clan war?
In the preliminary patch notes (also from what I read from some sites):
Changed the conditions for ending clan war
Before: 3 weeks after war begins or 1 week after war begins if the enemy clan admits defeat
After: If the declaration is not answered within one week or if the declaration is withdrawn
While on the Patch notes it says:
A clan war ends 3 weeks after it begins, or else 1 week after it begins if the enemy clan admits defeat.
I'm not Juji or Sace, but until one of them answers, here's a cut and paste from the patch notes earlier posted by Juji:
Clan Wars
Following the changes to parts of clan warfare, all clan wars in progress have been reset.
Changed the conditions for the start of clan warfare as follows:
Before: Level 3 or higher clan with 15 or more clan members
After: Level 5 or higher clan with 15 or more clan members
Changed limits for declaring war on other clans
Before: Can declare war on up to 5 clans at the same time / no limit to receiving declarations
After: Can declare war on up to 30 clans at the same time / no limit to receiving declarations
Changed the conditions for starting clan battles
Before: Following a 3 day grace period after a one-sided declaration or upon mutual declaration of war
After: when 5 members of the clan that declared war are killed by the other clan or upon mutual declaration of war
A clan that has had war declared on it can check the clan war status in the [War Info] section to see the number of PK’s and time to withdraw before war starts.
Changed the conditions for ending clan war
Before: 3 weeks after war begins or 1 week after war begins if the enemy clan admits defeat
After: If the declaration is not answered within one week or if the declaration is withdrawn
If a declaration is withdrawn, the clan will now lose 5,000 clan points.
Members of a clan that has had war declared on it will now see a mark clearly showing the clan that declared war.
When clan fame is transferred due to a PK between clan members in a mutual war, a screen message and system message will now appear displaying the clan, character, and score.
Edit: I'm only assuming that what's written is the changes, and if it's not written, it remains the same as it was before the update.
Ok is the war system suppose to be this lame. It's states if clan a declares on clan b then clan b must PK 5 members from clan a. Who will want to PK to start a war that's stupid this game is suppose to be ment for pvp not a care bear system. I don't know the point of this but it's really stupid. Ill understand if clan b has to PVP 5 people from clan a that's understandable but 5 pks come on ncsoft make a change here.
This post should be perfect, except with a DV posting it.
I need to say why ? :)
but well i cant judge u to be a DV
BUT
i will expose some things:
- U pvp vs low lvls (is ok most of server ppl is low and u are bored no problem)
- When seems u was losting server control (when i join server u was already 95+ xd) u recrut all these clans who was raising : OK here is the point dont say is carebear when u do this kind of things xd.
im agre with u post anyways
i made a Pk and lost 300kk in gear xd (i join kartya and didn noticed about debuff 25% pdef + decrease 9% from dual class skill and go self buf xd) so i die 1 time =P. i think the chance of item disapear is very hight i only have 18 pks.
Ps: I play healer , im near 500 pvp and im low lvl. Is not an excuse to say rest are hight lvl i dont go pvp. Ppl is just coward, is a lot 95+ farmers. Its not about lvl or gear is about get 2 big things in midle of the legs :).ITS ALL ABOUT PLAY STYLE for me ppl call me the mad healer and clan cal me the agro... -.-" xd. flag= hit . i dont like u= hit. easy.im bored= hit cos i can.
Mr Zoey u are in a big clan u should make more pvp events not only for sieges the game is about pvp , when i was cl i had 8 wars and everytime we made teza/freya (almost all days dailys pvp)ALL clan go to pvp like 3-4 pt and who dont want /kick was a clan rule to leave the kartya instances even to go pvp
i can say the ppl who stay in clan get alot funny times and have enought pvp experience cos that (usually ppl told us we look like more lvl and we are crazy for 4 ppl vs 3 pt XDD or some *****)
Use u HV not only to say how bad play u war or insult between you.
Some day ago i had a pt math mesage pvp in some zone, few ppl come : im very disapointed to play in oficial i thought was diferent thing when i came here.
U are in position to make Magmeld dont die more and maybe is u responsability too (to make it not).
but well i cant judge u to be a DV
BUT
i will expose some things:
- U pvp vs low lvls (is ok most of server ppl is low and u are bored no problem)
- When seems u was losting server control (when i join server u was already 95+ xd) u recrut all these clans who was raising : OK here is the point dont say is carebear when u do this kind of things xd.
perfect definiton about western players
doesnt matter how nc soft alters the pvp system, you ppl will bot, bandwagon or use any 3rd party software just to win
WTF are you talking about. Pre-GOD wars weren't automatic either. Clans could declare and opposing clan could NEVER accept.
They started after 10 days or two weeks or something if the other clan didn't accept by then.
sounds like u guys are on the wrong server.. on Naia it's full mutual destruction fights between SH and DH clans.. those are the 2 strongest clans on the server..
SH sent war and DH accepted it, since then it's massive spam blue & red messages ;)
of course in this case both clans are close to equal in force/power base.. why would you war a clan that can't give u a real fight anywayz after all ^^
They started after 10 days or two weeks or something if the other clan didn't accept by then.
Not Pre-God, you could accept or just leave it 1 way. You could even turn it on and off at one point with no real consequence (so small clans would declare it back for a few min to gank a party, and then shut it back off).
sounds like u guys are on the wrong server.. on Naia it's full mutual destruction fights between SH and DH clans.. those are the 2 strongest clans on the server..
SH sent war and DH accepted it, since then it's massive spam blue & red messages ;)
of course in this case both clans are close to equal in force/power base.. why would you war a clan that can't give u a real fight anywayz after all ^^
Yea Bregan were the only ones afaik that actually declared to Nova, FS/Enmity we had to trick some tards into killing us to get it going, and Genocide more or less took the Cntrl keys off their keyboards ;) This is probably my least favorite update that I've seen for L2.
They started after 10 days or two weeks or something if the other clan didn't accept by then.
Pre-GoD wars could be completely one-sided. Post-GoD (but pre-GD) you had a 3 days window to either accept the war or hope the other clan would withdraw the declaration. After that window, a 7-day mutual war would start, and after 7 days, you could choose to surrender and stop the hostilities for another 2 weeks.
Why the hell my thread was merged into this one? O.o
My thread was an honest question to clear out preliminary patch notes and patch notes discrepancy not to whine about about the new war system, I even made it in the correct sub forum.
Well I guess it might get a bit more of traffic here.
I like new war system. I can force any clan to be in war with me and war doesnt last only 20 days... it is a perma war untill one of the 2 sides surrender and this is perfect. I can also send 30 wars at the same time which is awesome and the best is the sign that tells who has been killed and by who.
Dont call the game carebear, everybody has a choice of playing as much PVP they want.. you just need to have balls for it and dont join carebear clans (99% of clans are)
The threads were merged in order to keep only 1 thread about the topic of clan wars, as many answers/comments would be suitable for both but could end up in double-posting.
Ok because a clan member bet me some adena on this I'll need an answer from either Juji or Sace.
So the question is what is the condition to end a clan war?
In the preliminary patch notes (also from what I read from some sites):
While on the Patch notes it says:
A clan war ends 3 weeks after it begins, or else 1 week after it begins if the enemy clan admits defeat.
So which is it?
Apologies for the confusion on this; Juji's post is correct and there was an error on the website patch notes that I'll fix now. The only patch note that says anything about ending clan wars is "If the declaration is not answered within one week or if the declaration is withdrawn."
The threads were merged in order to keep only 1 thread about the topic of clan wars, as many answers/comments would be suitable for both but could end up in double-posting.
Apologies for the confusion on this; Juji's post is correct and there was an error on the website patch notes that I'll fix now. The only patch note that says anything about ending clan wars is "If the declaration is not answered within one week or if the declaration is withdrawn."
So in theory the wars can go on forever until someone resigns ? :eek:
So in theory the wars can go on forever until someone resigns ? :eek:
That's why I'm not sure about; the patch notes are a bit unclear and testing for such a long term example would be difficult.
In fact the new CW system is the 1st one that actually makes sanse. Let's exclude the top lvl clans, who got to the lvl cap and now just wonder what else to do in game. Let's take a view over the small clans (lvl 7-8) who got not more then 40 active ppl at the same time and DON'T want to be someone's pet. Let's imagine such 2 clans trying to do Spezion at the same time with one clan party each. They're stealing each others CBs and Drops, then there is some pvp and the one side declares war. If the other side isn't sure or the CL and officers aren't in to accept the war, all the pt has to do is just to pvp again with the other clan. It's perfect.
NC Soft really needs to think about this system as it will ruin clans.
Lets think of what will eventually happen. Top clan A who has 99 characters that use program (we all know many do and NC is not stopping them) declares on much lower level clan B. It will not be long before the tricks of force flag starts to occur or Clan A finds clan B out and about flagged and drops them counting toward the war. All clan A has to achieve is find or force clan B to flag and drop them fast after 5 kills war starts and it is permanent unless clan B surrenders. Surrendering will cause Clan B to loose 5 K report points. It will not take long for the lower level clans to be negative in REP and members will leave because no clan skills. Once this happens that Clan A will move onto another lower clan and after some time you will see many low level clans or lower level clans disappear.
So right now this war system is forcing many clans to NEVER flag or never PVP which will also cause many people to get bored and leave the game. NC Soft will suffer in 6 months when people leave the game because of this setup.
NC Soft really needs to think about this system as it will ruin clans.
Lets think of what will eventually happen. Top clan A who has 99 characters that use program (we all know many do and NC is not stopping them) declares on much lower level clan B. It will not be long before the tricks of force flag starts to occur or Clan A finds clan B out and about flagged and drops them counting toward the war. All clan A has to achieve is find or force clan B to flag and drop them fast after 5 kills war starts and it is permanent unless clan B surrenders. Surrendering will cause Clan B to loose 5 K report points. It will not take long for the lower level clans to be negative in REP and members will leave because no clan skills. Once this happens that Clan A will move onto another lower clan and after some time you will see many low level clans or lower level clans disappear.
So right now this war system is forcing many clans to NEVER flag or never PVP which will also cause many people to get bored and leave the game. NC Soft will suffer in 6 months when people leave the game because of this setup.
I think you are missing the point.
The REAL question is will this war system cause more product from the NC Store to be sold.
If half the server quits and Store sales go up then NC is delighted and accomplished their objective.
NC Soft really needs to think about this system as it will ruin clans.
Lets think of what will eventually happen. Top clan A who has 99 characters that use program (we all know many do and NC is not stopping them) declares on much lower level clan B. It will not be long before the tricks of force flag starts to occur or Clan A finds clan B out and about flagged and drops them counting toward the war. All clan A has to achieve is find or force clan B to flag and drop them fast after 5 kills war starts and it is permanent unless clan B surrenders. Surrendering will cause Clan B to loose 5 K report points. It will not take long for the lower level clans to be negative in REP and members will leave because no clan skills. Once this happens that Clan A will move onto another lower clan and after some time you will see many low level clans or lower level clans disappear.
So right now this war system is forcing many clans to NEVER flag or never PVP which will also cause many people to get bored and leave the game. NC Soft will suffer in 6 months when people leave the game because of this setup.
A) Small clans are a blight on L2.
B) None cares about small clans, you'll accomplish nothing, as small clans mean nothing VS large clans that accomplish in game tasks.
C) This game has always been set up for large clan functions not small, even adding fortresses benefited large clans over small ones.
D) this war system is awesome, and far better then it was in GoD/tauti. I've had, and gain far more pvp now then ever before!
E) Carebears are stupid, if you want to play this game or any game for PvE only go find a console game to play on! Rushing to 99, and skipping all the content in between is pointless.
F) I hope this war system destroys small clans, and they all merge into large clans and fight back! This is a open world PvP game, not a open world PvE only, ignore anyone that flags on you.
All clan A has to achieve is find or force clan B to flag and drop them fast after 5 kills war starts
You are missing something, something big:
How this underlined patch note works:
Clan A declares war on Clan B.
Clan B must PK 5 members of Clan A for the war to start within one week.
Scenario One: If Fred from Clan B PKs Joe, Larry, Sarah, Becky, and Thomas from Clan A, then the war will start.
Scenario Two: If Fred from Clan B PKs Joe from Clan A 5 times, then the war will start.
PvP kills do not count.
If a clan member of Clan A is chaotic and is killed by members from Clan B, then that kill will not count toward the 5 war starting kill rule.
PVP counts toward the war counter. So all they need to do is find you flagged or force you to flag and kill you 5x and war starts.
To the other post about this being great you have a limited marketing thought process. I would bet your probably high level and close to end game stuff. Those people that play legit and can only play for 2-3 hours a day and are average level of 94 can not do much against the 99 (probably non legit or no lives) and do not war against the top clans- so they join smaller clans that will actually try to help get them to top level. That is unless they get forced into wars they can not win. So back to my point is that this war system will hurt NC Soft because smaller clans that hold those people that actually work and can only play for couple hours a day will cease to exist. The war system is great for those that are top level and can force wars against those that can't fight.
PVP counts toward the war counter. So all they need to do is find you flagged or force you to flag and kill you 5x and war starts.
To the other post about this being great you have a limited marketing thought process. I would bet your probably high level and close to end game stuff. Those people that play legit and can only play for 2-3 hours a day and are average level of 94 can not do much against the 99 (probably non legit or no lives) and do not war against the top clans- so they join smaller clans that will actually try to help get them to top level. That is unless they get forced into wars they can not win. So back to my point is that this war system will hurt NC Soft because smaller clans that hold those people that actually work and can only play for couple hours a day will cease to exist. The war system is great for those that are top level and can force wars against those that can't fight.
Yes and no...I would imagine those smaller clans are just groups of friends/casuals that like to play together, not necessarily going for the big seiges etc.. and aren't as concerned about raising the clan's lvl too much..so they are more likely to ignore war and the penalty of withdrawing.
PVP counts toward the war counter.
This right here shows that you didn't read a thing I posted or have some sort of reading comprehension problem.
Just to make it clear.
You can't force wars now.
The only way they could force a war on you is if somehow you manage to kill them by mistake (maybe your party is pulling a big train to AoE and they flag, go naked and stand within range of the AoEs), otherwise they can go red, purple, violet on you and the war wont start, some sort of a if you can't kill them why the hell would there be a war.
This message is to Sace or any other Admin or developer who has the answer.. I don't want players who assume they know the answers and try to answer as for you do not know so don't bother.
Please give direct answers Admin as for alot of people are wondering the same thing yet no one is understanding their questions or they only try to appear smart by posting the patch notes which apparently they do not understand either.
1. Clan war has been tested between to clans, it in fact starts after 4 kills and not five, please look in to this.
2. Clan war that is not accepted by declaring back, or by killing 4 ( suppose to be 5 members of the clans members) drops in 7 days aka times out. ( that part i understand )
those two statements are about the only ones that make sense..
here are the questions we all want answered as a player base.
3. Other than a deceleration of defeat how does a clan war stop? If a clan war starts and both sides are engaged in clan war. by either declaration or the pk ( this means player kill this also includes flag people not straght up pk'ing as people has so forth defined it.) then WHEN if at all does the clan war stop. Does it go on infinitely or does it end after 3 weeks the patch notes are unclear about this, so please clarify this for all..
4. If you declare a defeat, then your clan looses 5k rep points. do you gain anything from a win, cause if not, what is the purpose of penalizing a clan who taps with out rewarding the clan who toughed out the war. that makes no sense..
A war should purpose.. so with this system, a big clan can declare on a small clan, and if some way the war does go live, say the big clan gets a spy in the clan, who kills 5 members to just start the war, the big clan can dominate the small clan, and **** the points anyway over a long period of time, but if the small clan declares a loss, they loose 5k rep points also. Or lose members and let their clan die cause the war never stops? this is so not cool.. If there is NO end to the war.. One should definitely be implemented. other wise smaller clans will just be targeted by large clans and there will be no balance to power in this case.
If 10 days no PvP between clan A and B war is dropped or does it remain in declared position forever? is there a cool down after the war is dropped?
If clan B PVP's and kills 3 (or 4, or 5 i forgot how many) members of clan A War starts right? (Juji stated before that it has to be 5 PK's but clearly this is not the case)
If Clan B drops the war, pays the 5k reputation, what is the cool down before Clan A can declare again? Or does the war just revert to the first declaration phase?
Does kills on siege ground counts as "pvp" victories and therefore would it start wars?
How soon can Clan B drop the war? as in pay the 5k rep and end war?
Does killing their higher level academy toons also insight war?
very poorly conceived change to what was already a pretty strange and obtuse war system.
Honestly ive said this time and time again, TEST YOUR **** PATCHES thoroughly. Also providing CORRECT information to your player base is very important. Sometimes you guys seem to be just as much in the dark as us players.
Okay, we got a declared war today.
According with the new rules, if we kill 5 ppl of the enemy clan, we automatically accept war, right?
Today, in the siege of Goddard, we killed some of them in the area of siege and the numbers didn't change.
But today, they registered against our fortress, and as we were in the area of siege, started to kill 'em, but the numbers of killing began to dwindle.
Result: we don't want to accept the war, we had to lose our fortress because of that.
The question is: why the siege kills count and do not count in the fortress? A bit unfair, don't you think? Is that a bug or just the way it is?
for me a ally means a friendly clan , an clan who come help me all the time at siege ..
if we are ally we go there togheter to assist each other to help each other , why we get debuf from ally and they from us wtf. ally means dont atack each other but how when is there 100 ppl at sieges and we need use our mass skills and our ally get all debufs and damage from our mass and we same from them.....
i play allot of servers i never see ally to get mass agro to get debuf on siege
if is there 1 enemy clan at siege with 50 ppl and we are 80 ppl but 3 clans ally
that 50 enemy have the bigest chance to win becose they can use all skills and we not becose we debuf each other...
My opinion u Ncsoft need do somethink agains this like clans not to get debuf from ally clans at sieges to can enjoy this game and can use all our power skills not just some. becose now ally inv option is = 0 we have just same ally crest but cant help to much at sieges.. if continue like this i dont understand what is the point to keep that option to inv clans in ally .
and sorry for my english but im 100% u understand what i want to say
Kills inside the siege zone count into the 5 which start the war. Confirmed yesterday.
Clans that own a castle/fortress can now unwillingly accept the war while defending their castle/fortress because of that.
just FYI
Indeed, we killed a player from a clan that was attacking our fortress (inside the siege zone), and we killed one of them flagged outside the siege zone, both counted. If it was meant to be like juji mentioned, pvp kills should not count so... Apparently we have a little issue here.
Kills inside the siege zone count into the 5 which start the war. Confirmed yesterday.
Clans that own a castle/fortress can now unwillingly accept the war while defending their castle/fortress because of that.
just FYI
Confirming this point.
Kills done on a siegefield are used for the system to declare a war. Or how to delete CRP from clans :)
As there are some questions that were not answered in the patch notes, we're in the process of requesting more information about the clan war system in order to answer them for you. When we have more info to share we'll post it.
I tried to explain that clan wars can be forced and people did not believe me. I tested and proved it before I posted my response a couple of days ago. So I will restate small clans will eventually be crushed in this update if any large clan feels they want to destroy them. All they need to do is declare and then force the war knowing that the small clan will need to end it loosing 5000 rep points. After giving a clan a negative clan rep and loosing all clan buffs no one will want to stay in that clan.
The players that only play a couple hours a day and who refuse to use cheat methods that try to stick together in medium or small clans may soon not be able to do so.
I tried to explain that clan wars can be forced and people did not believe me. I tested and proved it before I posted my response a couple of days ago. So I will restate small clans will eventually be crushed in this update if any large clan feels they want to destroy them. All they need to do is declare and then force the war knowing that the small clan will need to end it loosing 5000 rep points. After giving a clan a negative clan rep and loosing all clan buffs no one will want to stay in that clan.
The players that only play a couple hours a day and who refuse to use cheat methods that try to stick together in medium or small clans may soon not be able to do so.
If the declared on clan does not attack back and kill 5 members of the declaring clan the declaration ends after a week. How is that forcing the war on anyone? So you dont defend your fort that week or go to a castle seige. That is hardly the death of a clan.....
sounds like u guys are on the wrong server.. on Naia it's full mutual destruction fights between SH and DH clans.. those are the 2 strongest clans on the server..
SH sent war and DH accepted it, since then it's massive spam blue & red messages ;)
of course in this case both clans are close to equal in force/power base.. why would you war a clan that can't give u a real fight anywayz after all ^^
seems like only this dude hasnt forgotten what the pvp is about - not to boost ur i-net ***** over killing the inferiours, but raising up for the challenge to deal with equals and have a competition and if successfull, then have ur i-net ***** lengthened
the censored thing is the common word for male genitalia, you commie forum
Ok guys, this war system is exactly the same, as we had before Goddes of Destruction (aka in C3, C4, C5, Interlude etc), just less carebear. I think what developers had in mind was following:
Before GoD (aka in C3, etc) the main problem with war system was that some clans would never accept war, and PVP only when this was comfortable for them, other times forcing to PK... or even switch to two-sided war in order to gank some soloing enemy, then switch back to one sided.
They tried to fix above issue with forced war in GoD, but noone was happy with that implemenation. PVP players were not happy that war lasts only 7 days, and PVE players were not happy, that the system was used as a griefing tool (for instance on Naia SH had wars with probably every single clan on the server, I don't know why).
This needed to be fixed as well. So they returned to the old system, just prevented the clans from exploit eternal one-sided war. Now, if you don't want war then simply you_don't_fight. If you kill enemies, you must, and will wage a proper war. So no more killing enemy soloers and laugh in the face of enemy parties, that can't kill you back without going red.
Lets hope it helps... honestly I wouldn't mind to go back to PK mode..
I think that the way that NC is handling PKs is too carebear. I lost count on how many party/1-sided/etc members I pked, just because they decided to act stupid.
I still wish that the Sin Eater and PKs return to what it was in the past.
actualy if you dont want accept the war.... if clan A agresse clan B during the declaration, Clan B have 2 choice : moove and be scared, or fight and war start.
the idea is realy good and perso, i like the système but ..... i see 1 big probleme in that :
during a siege, ther is many attackers ... and clan war can't be escape
and during a siege its easy with a low clan with few member tu do an carnage in a big clan with many member
Clan A 5-10 member only focus clan B ... Clan B many member, defend his castel and have to focus XX clan
deviate the topic to the theme of the siege, the problem is not where you lose the war, the problem is that if this new system protecting the pve
that war is war no matter if you got siege or any event you have to always go to the front.
What happens is that 80% pve frikki and enjoy without having to watch his back from pk or war
This is not Greenpace is l2
************************************************** ********---------------- RED ZONE
So in your opinion GoD is "pure" L2? Because current system is almost exactly the same as C3-C4, and even ability to loose items on PK is back (on another note, it is easier to get rid of karma, than in old times). So what is exactly L2 for you? :P
So in your opinion GoD is "pure" L2? Because current system is almost exactly the same as C3-C4, and even ability to loose items on PK is back (on another note, it is easier to get rid of karma, than in old times). So what is exactly L2 for you? :P
For me L2 is long gone.. nowadays I call this GoD..
This right here shows that you didn't read a thing I posted or have some sort of reading comprehension problem.
Just to make it clear.
You can't force wars now.
The only way they could force a war on you is if somehow you manage to kill them by mistake (maybe your party is pulling a big train to AoE and they flag, go naked and stand within range of the AoEs), otherwise they can go red, purple, violet on you and the war wont start, some sort of a if you can't kill them why the hell would there be a war.
your talking out your hat you can force a war it states in the PATCH NOTES PK THEM in fact its even in pvp
and to be honest being here since closed beta it has killed the game for me well done ncsoft. why not allow big clans to run bots aswell . oops you do as no kind of bot report or petition works any longer
glad its free to play because i wont be spending another dime on lineage 2
we worked that out when we had a war forced on us then the guy that did it opened a party room offering the whole of chronos the chance to war us and he would start it for them
So this is how you FORCE a clan war-
Declare on them and then attack the fort or siege field they are on and let them win. When the declaring clan gets killed 5x during either of these functions the war starts. This is fine for the CHEAT clans that have botted up to 99 but for working folks that can only play couple hours a day and don not want to fight these CHEAT clans you cant. Small clans will slowly get crushed.
Weird thing is that even if the declaration period passes without the 5 needed kills, you can immediately re-declare again, basically keeping the other clan permanently in the "kill 5 of us and the war starts" state. And if the two-sided war starts and you declare defeat and lose 5k clan rep, the other clan also can re-declare immediately again, basically keeping the war up forever. In the really old clan war system, you could keep the war one-sided if you did not want a two-sided war. In the pre-glory days system, there was at least a cooldown period after you ended the war after the first week. Now the war can stay up forever.
we worked that out when we had a war forced on us then the guy that did it opened a party room offering the whole of chronos the chance to war us and he would start it for them
as this guy said, which I saw myself, this system is wide open to abuse; the spy in his clan was shouting in aden for hours to "sell" war to anyone, even listing in partymatching, etc. Forcing war is not a good idea, but at least before GD the neutral clan could just stay in town for a week to avoid the stronger clan, and then it was over for awhile.
Definitely losing 5000 crp is way too high of a penalty, especially for vulnerable small or legit clans for whom that is really a lot of work to accumulate in the first place. If war could not be forced on neutral clans it wouldn't matter what the penalty is, but since it can, this is a problem because guaranteed there are many jerk clans on server who will force wars on anyone they can, esp. since they can declare on so many now too.
New war system is trash. So epic fail!!!!! How the hell do make one the the best pvp games and make it 100% carebear????????
The opposite and i will explain.
if and for any reason a clan A declares war to a clan B and clan B avoid accept in one week the clan B is loosing 5k reputation points.
next week clan A continues declare war against clan B and now the clan B is in the dilemma of continues loosing such a big amount of 5k reputation points or accept the war.
ofc there is always the option for the clan B to continues ignore the declaration of the war but with -20k points every month the progress of the the clan B will start be a "Big Dream" since anything for the progress of the clan needs reputation points ;)
So if a big pvp clan wants totally ruin one pve or a small pvp clan now can easily do it since that has a limit of 30 clans to declare wars and i dont see more than this number to be active ( with their hands on the keyboard :) ) and they are more than lvl 8 right now in naia .
only unclaned can avoid war but you will loose the clan passive skills
in conclusion as i see the whole think with new war system ... welcome to hell ( if The eye of Mordor draws attention on you :p ) for the less than 9 lvl clans and for the clans that are not well organised with good setups in clan parties prepared for battle anytime in openworld ( exp or quest ) areas !
if and for any reason a clan A declares war to a clan B and clan B avoid accept in one week the clan B is loosing 5k reputation points.
next week clan A continues declare war against clan B and now the clan B is in the dilemma of continues loosing such a big amount of 5k reputation points or accept the war.
ofc there is always the option for the clan B to continues ignore the declaration of the war but with -20k points every month the progress of the the clan B will start be a "Big Dream" since anything for the progress of the clan needs reputation points ;)
So if a big pvp clan wants totally ruin one pve or a small pvp clan now can easily do it since that has a limit of 30 clans to declare wars and i dont see more than this number to be active and they are more than lvl 8 right now in naia .
only unclaned can avoid war but you will loose the clan passive skills
in conclusion welcome to hell ( if The eye of Mordor draws attention on you :p ) for the less than 9 lvl clans and for the clans that are not well organised with good setups in clan parties prepared for battle anytime in openworld exp or quest areas !
I dont think you lose CRP if you dont accept the war, just if you accept it and then withdraw.
I dont think you lose CRP if you dont accept the war, just if you accept it and then withdraw.
glory days patch says
"
A war declaration can be canceled by the declaring clan at the cost of 5,000 Clan Points, but it may also time-out if the declaration does not receive a response after 1 week.
"
"
Apologies for the confusion on this; Juji's post is correct and there was an error on the website patch notes that I'll fix now. The only patch note that says anything about ending clan wars is "If the declaration is not answered within one week or if the declaration is withdrawn."
"
as i said ... welcome to hellfire ( i supposed ths was an other chronicle :p ) if you belong to a small clan and a big pvp clan wants to destroy you :p
this is the real meaning of lineage 2 ... your actions ingame matters .... something that most of the other mmos have missing a lot time ago ...!!!
That sentence means that you DON'T lose your CRPs if you simply wait for the declaration to expire, without declaring back. The 5k CRPs vanish only if you withdraw from a MUTUAL war.
We're talking about the conditions to make 5k CRPs vanish, or the topic suddenly changed without anyone noticing?
He's confused about the way that sentence is written:
A war declaration can be canceled by the declaring clan at the cost of 5,000 Clan Points, but it may also time-out if the declaration does not receive a response after 1 week. Those are 2 options, one with cost and one without cost.
This only says that if you declare a war by mistake, you can cancel it and suck up the 5000 CRP loss, or you can hope the other clan does not accept the war and wait 1 week. It would be too screw-y to lose CRP when declared against, rather than on surrender.
i feel that there is a gap in informations that we have from gm and developers and from players and the situations of loosing 5k rep points.
i will stop writing because the informations and the situations are not clearly defined and i think maybe i will be totally wrong if i repeat something that is not well wrote.
but if the a clan can re - declare immediately after 6 days the opposite clan will be in KOS situation as long the clan A want . this alone will "grow up" many clan leaders and will bring back the consequences of their actions and the real meaning of character reputation and ofc it will make clans stronger or destroy them depends of the human "materials" inside the clan
Other problem in Clan War, in my War stats windows show me +10 points up, and clan enemy show for they +70 points up, both clan winning war, is a bug? ncosft will fix it? QQ ahuahu
The timing of the war system update for the maturity of Shilen is brutal,... most of the non donating, non bot clans never had a chance to get lvl. 9-11 Clans, or 95+ players.
I undertsand reading some posts that yes, small clans, or farm Clans are pointless in this game, but some intended on being larger PvP clans, and now are being CRUSHED. More freedom, and power to the ones who already had it as usual. I feel bad for the ones screwed by it who worked hard to try to build there Clan since Shilen started 11 months ago. The rest of us should be glad it was easier to build our Clans then. leveling characters now from 1-99, easy, building your clan now,.... you get warred by the top 3-5, delete your Clan.
Get balls,...... I not sure BIG balls gonna help a lvl. 89 in a lower Clan who can't afford donate, or bot, when his clan gets clan war from a clan full of 97+, he has 3 options,... instances for life, go clanless, or quit, or de-lvl. being the 4th. I guess lol.
Maybe a rule where you can't war a clan 2 lvl.'s lower than you,... Clans will not stop level up because of that either, because you have to be lvl. 11 for your main clan to wear castle Cloak.
And of course you got some power hungry Clan leaders that will continue to declare war up to 30, and crush smaller Clans with no respect, or care, but hey they were givin the power to do so, so can't really blame them, must be what NCSoft wants. They know how there updates are gonna play out. I know how they are gonna play out 5 mins. after reading patch notes each time lol.
5k clan rep. surrendered for 7 days of possible peace, hahaha,... sure I can afford that, but I won't surrender ever, but realistically, maybe it shoulda been 2.5k rep. only, and they still had a 21 day safe time from the clan. 7 days for 5k??? Never,.... now top clans gonna say good never, but don't you want the 5k rep., and re-war in 21 days??? You still got 29 other war slots if you want. Or even 2.5k be nice reward for you, then re-war in 21 days. makes more sense to me, but I am just a crazy canuck from Canada.
All in all I like it more than any war system yet, especially the notification messages, and the scroeboard BUT,....
SACE!???
How come when the server crashes, or goes down for maintenance, or any reason, the Clan with the negative score goes back to 0 even, and the Clan in the positive keeps there score. What is that crap??? I am looking a +28 on a war, and they are looking at mine + something also to me lol,..... shouldn't if one side see's +43, or w/e, the opposing clan should see -43 always, these scores should never reset. If the other clan has +43 on me,... I wanna see -43, and fight for it back,... not see +++ also, like we are both winning the war, what the heck??? Am I the first one to mention this, or did I miss another topic, or should start one?
Anyway, good topic, and discussion, thanx for reading.
I think that more detailed information than the existing patch notes is needed regarding the clan war system. For example, I was told that if a clan pays 5k CRP the war is not actually canceled but goes back to initial one-way declaration state (needing accept war or five deaths to restart or no activity for a week to end). If this is true, pathc notes don't mention about it. Also, things are a bit fuzzy regarding how a war that started can be finished. Is it only the surrender method (paying 5K CRP) or there is another one (like no pvp for a week's period)?
I also believe that it would be really useful to smaller clans mostly have a message of who kills during the first 5 PvP. Right now although you can see which clan member kills or dies during a clan war, this is not possible for the first 5 kills that are needed to start the war.
I think that more detailed information than the existing patch notes is needed regarding the clan war system. For example, I was told that if a clan pays 5k CRP the war is not actually canceled but goes back to initial one-way declaration state (needing accept war or five deaths to restart or no activity for a week to end). If this is true, pathc notes don't mention about it. Also, things are a bit fuzzy regarding how a war that started can be finished. Is it only the surrender method (paying 5K CRP) or there is another one (like no pvp for a week's period)?
I also believe that it would be really useful to smaller clans mostly have a message of who kills during the first 5 PvP. Right now although you can see which clan member kills or dies during a clan war, this is not possible for the first 5 kills that are needed to start the war.
i saw this with my clan, lets say u are clan A, you declare to B. war starts and after a few clan B cancel the war (5000crp), you'll not see anymore the war under 'war info', but clan A can immeditely declare war again to clan B. so basically, you end the war but you get declared again in few seconds, and if you are near a siege day 100% the war will start again
I pray for proper patch note release on the new war system, details, rules, and exactly how it works,... but problem is GM's even already posted they don't know the answers,.... maybe they will get to clearing it up, and post a clean patch notes of the war system soon,... because honestly I don't even think it is working right either. I don't think the clan in the negative score is suppose to reset every time server restarts either. That's just stupid.
I do keep to logically too the new Clan War system.
If you can't keep a member from a clan what you did attack after a week, it would be maximally useless clan war.
The original PK system back to the game so from now you can remove easily the PK points.
But from now the PK system is part of the Clan War system and it isn't about the endless PKing.
I guess need a minimal IQ to understand, that what the developers did want with this changes.
As Retri told, this is the best Clan War System what we can have.
Yeah myself I have no issue understanding it, and how it works, and yes many are confused about the PK thing. It doesn't have to be a PK, it can be mutual PvP also.
It is a good system, just bad timing for that type war system on the new servers right in the middle of some already reaching the top lvl.'s, and the non donating, non botters who are just as important as the donators now having to deal with this before getting there. OFC a lvl. 99 gonna love this lol, but I like it to. I just hope it doesn't make us lose more people from the game because they think they have been screwed by another NCSoft update. That's part of life though, the rich get richer & stronger, and the poor try to survive, and move up, no different in Lineage. :)
My only concern is the broken scoring system reseting when servers go down. Anyone know if that's how it is suppose to be??? Let's reset the Clans score that is in the negative so they don't feel so bad, or what lol? I really am baffled that both Clans can be winning a war at the same time.
My only concern is the broken scoring system reseting when servers go down. Anyone know if that's how it is suppose to be??? Let's reset the Clans score that is in the negative so they don't feel so bad, or what lol? I really am baffled that both Clans can be winning a war at the same time.
What you mean by that? Score was reset after maintenance?
What you mean by that? Score was reset after maintenance?
Every time the server goes down,.... for any reason,... the clan who has the NEGATIVE score goes back to even 0 lol, while the winning Clan keeps there score.
So when server comes up you go kill +25 of that Clan who see's +100 or w/e on you still, then they will see +75, and you see +25, Gz. your both winning remarkable, what fun is that lol???
So I have confimred it doesn't have to be PK, it can be mutual PvP with the declared Clan, and the kills count towards the war starting. (Confirmed)
Also confirmed that if you DO not kill 5 of the Clan who declared on you in the declared time frame, then NO war. The war does NOT start, and disappears from being declared, so yes, Clan wars are avoidable if you wish. (Confirmed)
I really wanna know about this wacked scoring system,...... really not fun like that at all. Like I said if the oposing Clan see's +100 I wanna see -100 so I know what I have lost, and keep fighting back either way of course.
Guess time to go submit ticket, no GM answers here. :)
@ Alhe above, if you do choose to surrender 5k. Clan Rep,.... they can't re-declare for 7 whole days, worth it right???
This ..... is .... a ...... pvp ..... game .......
when did all of you loose sight of this? dont people remember being lvl 40 trying to kill a lvl (OMG) 42? lol . you are all so caught up on trying to xp ONLY that you have lost sight of what makes this game fun !
when people wanted a spot they would flag and try to pvp for it. If they call higher lvls to come pvp and kill you, YOU call higher lvls to come pvp, TOP clans are bored cuz they cant find pvp, so i bet you most will be happy to smash on some kids.
Heck when i was starting this game back int eh day, i would try so hard to make friends with the pvpers, and would tell them about pvp when i could not fight.
I know people are devoted to staying with thier friends and clans, but now is the time of change and if you want to pvp more, and make a difference and want to grow, go to a pvp clan ! many are out there and most are looking for help.
@ Alhe above, if you do choose to surrender 5k. Clan Rep,.... they can't re-declare for 7 whole days, worth it right???
you are clan A, declare to B. B end the war paying 5000crp. Immeditely clan A can declare war again to clan B, but clan B have a penality of 7 days for declare war on clan A.
and is no sense, cos if clan B end the war means they cant handle it, so why they should have a penality? for sure that clan wont declare war to clan A lol maybe the opposite was a better choise
The patch notes state that you loose 5k points if you drop the war and you are the Declaring clan. No where does it say you loose the points if the declared clan drops the war. Has anyone been in a clan that was declared on and dropped the war?
The patch notes state that you loose 5k points if you drop the war and you are the Declaring clan. No where does it say you loose the points if the declared clan drops the war. Has anyone been in a clan that was declared on and dropped the war?
Wow, your right, and no, no one has dropped 1 war yet on Shilen, so dunno.
you are clan A, declare to B. B end the war paying 5000crp. Immeditely clan A can declare war again to clan B, but clan B have a penality of 7 days for declare war on clan A.
and is no sense, cos if clan B end the war means they cant handle it, so why they should have a penality? for sure that clan wont declare war to clan A lol maybe the opposite was a better choise
Uuuum, really, sounds reversed / backwards lol. If that is how it is suppose to be, it deffinitly makes no sense, cause if your dropping wars, who cares if you have penalty when I doubt you looking to declare more right away, if your surrendering wars lol.
I would like answers to both those questions also just for the curiosity of it, and I really can't get this negative score reset when server goes down stuff. Makes me dizzy.
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Gotta love the 97-99's still posting here, PvP, gogogogogogo. I feel there pain. I feel for both sides, but the new war system is Pro. Just think it might have a couple bugs, and not be working right, dunno for sure patch notes not clear enough, and still NO GM answers, just speculation qq.
As there are some questions that were not answered in the patch notes, we're in the process of requesting more information about the clan war system in order to answer them for you. When we have more info to share we'll post it.
The explanation of how the new war system works exactly shouldn't be more than 10-20 lines of text (unless it is way more complicated than I can think of). Pretty sure that any developer/GM/etc. could write this clarification in 10-15 minutes of time. The fact that nobody took the time to do so after 3 weeks, makes evident how little respect Koreans have for NC West playerbase. This stacks with other cases of such behaviour from their side either towards our playerbase or towards the NC West staff.
This attitude from Koreans really makes me sad (and I believe not only me but other players as well) and maybe you should consider escalating the matter (if you haven't already done so).
I tested the "End War" button on a war today. We were declared on and we stll paid the 5k. Also what is funny it did not end the war it just reset it and if we kill 5 of them again at a siege it starts again...... So I geuss you cant end wars now.....
The explanation of how the new war system works exactly shouldn't be more than 10-20 lines of text (unless it is way more complicated than I can think of). Pretty sure that any developer/GM/etc. could write this clarification in 10-15 minutes of time. The fact that nobody took the time to do so after 3 weeks, makes evident how little respect Koreans have for NC West playerbase. This stacks with other cases of such behaviour from their side either towards our playerbase or towards the NC West staff.
This attitude from Koreans really makes me sad (and I believe not only me but other players as well) and maybe you should consider escalating the matter (if you haven't already done so).
Agree!
I tested the "End War" button on a war today. We were declared on and we stll paid the 5k. Also what is funny it did not end the war it just reset it and if we kill 5 of them again at a siege it starts again...... So I geuss you cant end wars now.....
Wow lol, so whether you declared the war, or not, if you surrender you will lose 5k. rep. The surrendering Clan gets a 7 day declaration penalty, and the other Clan gets NO penalty, and the war only goes back to declared, not completely off the list. Harsh.
Glad we are all slowly making our own patch notes here, ROFL! ;)
I tested the "End War" button on a war today. We were declared on and we stll paid the 5k. Also what is funny it did not end the war it just reset it and if we kill 5 of them again at a siege it starts again...... So I geuss you cant end wars now.....
Yup, that's also what I heard from others.
So this is how I understand the whole thing now:
- Clan A declares on Clan B.
- Two-sided war starts automatically if Clan B kills five members of Clan A within one week, otherwise the war declaration automatically gets removed. Clan A immediately can declare again. There is no cooldown period.
(patch notes say PK, but apparently flagged pvp also works as does pvp on siege ground - although clannies told me that pvp on siege ground did not count, but maybe they did not get the last hit)
- a started two-sided war does NOT automatically stop, it goes on forever until either side clicks the end war button. That clan loses 5000 clan rep (clan rep can go negative, which means deactivation (not loss) of all clan skills).
- a two-sided war which gets ended immediately goes back to the declaration phase, i.e. after another 5 kills on the other clan, the war gets started again.
- a started two-sided war does NOT automatically stop, it goes on forever until either side clicks the end war button. That clan loses 5000 clan rep (clan rep can go negative, which means deactivation (not loss) of all clan skills).
Or if no combat with the opposing Clan for 7 days. (Never happen.)
You can force the clan you declare war on into war and the only way to get it stopped is by losing 5,000 CRP which allows the other clan to declare on you straight away and force it on you right away.
This system was made to make the War System more balanced, but due to the fact that a PvP kill also counts as a kill to trigger the declare the system itself is faulty. Many big clans force wars on smaller clans by flagging, un-equipping all their armor and stand between your AoE group. One next-target or AoE and you kill the flagged guy and boom you're into war.
Unlike the old system the new system has no way to end a war, everything is permanent unless you pay off the war with 5,000 CRP, which is basically impossible because the war clan will gank any lv70+ char in Academy. This is especially impossible because after the 5,000 CRP payment you end up in the same situation as maybe hours before. Making it totally impossible to make any progress on your character or as a clan.
The most stupid part is that both Sace and Juji don't have a clue how the new system works and are unwilling to test it.
As there are some questions that were not answered in the patch notes, we're in the process of requesting more information about the clan war system in order to answer them for you. When we have more info to share we'll post it.
The old war systems, the ones prior to Goddess of Destruction and the one until Glory Days were perfect. Any clan could decide if they wanted war or not. I remember back in 2007 when even RussianMafia, ReVenGe and BeHappy on Franz stopped wars regularly just to unable everybody to make up for the exp loss. This was also able until Glory Days; 3 weeks of war, 1 week of recovery, 3 days until new declarations.
I cannot understand why NCSoft, owner of Lineage II, the MMO outstanding for his open PvP and balanced war system does suchs a radical change, totally stripping away everything they've build up in the past 6-7 years. For what? To please the level 99 MasterCard owners that have spend a couple of hunderd bucks a month to buy EXP items and Destruction Scrolls to be bored of the game and want wars with low level clans just to feel superior?
You cant really force them into the war.. they have to participate to be forced into the war. Which means if they siege, or participate in the campaign you can get war with them. If they dont fight back, and they dont flag, and they dont get involved in the seige or the campaign and you dont screw them over with a spy in there clan to activate it, there wont be a war.
5k crp is not that big a deal tbh.. could be like the really old days.. now that was hardcore.
That's why I'm not sure about; the patch notes are a bit unclear and testing for such a long term example would be difficult.
did this ever get answered ? this far in, im assuming they do last indefinately , when ppl drop they loose crps, clan they drop too doesnt even get so much as a u have won message, museum stats for clan wars r stagnant :-S
Ok ,first of all 5k clanrep isnt much since can make easily 8k per day and takes max 2,5 hrs:) w/t glaki or hestia etc. And if there r still some players who dont know : Yes the declared clan loose also 5k rep by ending the war.
But please admin answer me:
I had now ,as clanleader of bigger pve clan, several mail contact with your support team about the war bug in wednesday server downtimes, u told me that u can see this bug but yet : neither fix nor replaced our crp that we lost because of it (last 3 weeks =55k rep ). 55k rep isnt much for my clan but still its my time to get wasted.
Am i the only one who noticed this server maintenace bug yet??
I asked other clanleader and they had the same thing. I not want to spoil this bug here since can be heavily abused by the big cheater pvp clans but this bug now over 5 weeks and nothing was solved is not acceptable.:(
Ok ,first of all 5k clanrep isnt much since can make easily 8k per day and takes max 2,5 hrs:) w/t glaki or hestia etc. And if there r still some players who dont know : Yes the declared clan loose also 5k rep by ending the war.
But please admin answer me:
I had now ,as clanleader of bigger pve clan, several mail contact with your support team about the war bug in wednesday server downtimes, u told me that u can see this bug but yet : neither fix nor replaced our crp that we lost because of it (last 3 weeks =55k rep ). 55k rep isnt much for my clan but still its my time to get wasted.
Am i the only one who noticed this server maintenace bug yet??
I asked other clanleader and they had the same thing. I not want to spoil this bug here since can be heavily abused by the big cheater pvp clans but this bug now over 5 weeks and nothing was solved is not acceptable.:(
Not sure exactly what your bug is, but the only bug I see on Wednesday, or when server goes down is the clan with the negative score goes back to 0. I really don't get that set up.
Not sure exactly what your bug is, but the only bug I see on Wednesday, or when server goes down is the clan with the negative score goes back to 0. I really don't get that set up.
This has happened to many clans. Server goes down for maint then comes back up and some wars have changed from needing to kill 5 of opposing clan to start war to 1.
This has happened to many clans. Server goes down for maint then comes back up and some wars have changed from needing to kill 5 of opposing clan to start war to 1.
yes the kill points reset is just a formal error which can be tolerated still.
As hitshard said : server go down maintenance 5 kills to go for start 2 way war--- > server go up : only 1-2 kills random to go.
In pve clan with 100 active members 1 kill can easily happen w/t intension by simple mistakes...
I posted something like this few weeks ago, and sent a letter to Administration but did not receive any counterargument that it would be solved. I'm still waiting for fixes