lots of people want to play a tyrant, these days. i figure some insight is in order.
first of all, this guide shall in detail document your hunting grounds, skill set, and gear selection unbiasedly so that you may play your tyrant to the degree of freedom that you already exhibit in your existing game.
THIS GUIDE IS WRITTEN IN VIEW OF GRACIA: FINAL UPDATE AND IS NOT ACCURATE UNTIL ITS RELEASE
1. levels 20 through 40.
Top D grade isnt really necessary, as newbie buffs compensate for your lack of gear. even in cheap common drops youve got enough defence and offense to solo all these levels. most of your levelling will be kill-by-kill, solo, because you dont have any area effect skills as yet. the quick way to level is with herbs; with that in mind 20-25 get yourself about 50 regular healing potions, head to Necropolis of Sacrifice. about an hour later you should emerge halfway to 26, with no shots and no potions. good time to restock and head to a new zone. i submit, Cruma swamp. grab Greater antidotes and get to 32ish here. again should take about 1-1.5 hrs. 32 you should try Sea of Spores. the kills will be difficult at first, but youll get the hang of it, and later levels will provide you faster kills. remember to spam your stun, the wyrms hit pretty hard. you can stay here till 40 in relative safety. if youve got buffers to assist you, you will be better off doing catacombs for this level range.
2. levels 40 to 61
Important that you consider your options here. theres three methods of exping through this level. 1. RSK Haste single target soloing. 2. Haste single target soloing. 3. AOE Blaster.
RSK haste levelling means risking death at every turn. recommended gear setup is RSK HASTE'd Fist Blades + THECA. theca because VRing TOO MUCH will make your SA useless. you keep a low Patk for this setup and usually level with a prophet. Prophets heals are more than adequate. Pavel ruins is a great place to level through B grade. then Frozen lab to 56ish, and Forbidden Gateway or the area north of Silent Valley through 62.
Haste levelling means true soloing. recommended gear setup is Haste'd Fist Blades + Plated leather. haste is not available in a B grade Fist. but thats of little consequence as your damage will not change drastically from Fisted Blades to Bellion cestus. for haste levelling you want some weak mobs that DONT die fast. this way the respawn is kept up, and your HP keeps high via near continuous VR. recommend a Catacomb.
AOE blasting is something youll need some help to do properly. you get a tank with a healer, another Tyrant or a Glad, and yourself. regardless of gear setup, you use your blaster to AOE 1/2 HP mobs. 40's you can do quite well again in Pavel ruins. pull a whole room of stuff (kick the bots before you start.) pull it to a corner, boom. 55 before you know it. 55-60 go outside of Oren on the pobbies and such. make sure to pull big big trains. you can continue this in your 60's in Anceint battlefields outside of Aden. there demons and Undead, factor that in your damage calculations, and bring an extra healer. just because. its tricky.
3. your 70's
well, the time has come to get to 70. Dragon Grinder or Blood tornado? i have three words: Common Dragon Grinder. the Health SA is NOT WORTH YOUR MONEY. especially on Teon or Luna.
why not Blood Tornados w/ focus ? three words: Hawk is 74.
so, until then youre left with your armor choice. the armor you choose will determine where you hunt, and with which totem.
Tallum tyrants usually hunt in High HP areas, and have good support, usually hunting with Ogre. DClight tyrants are usually solo, and hunt herb areas, usually hunting with Rabbit. NM light tyrants are confused, and are decidedly unfocused on a specific totem, usually alternating between totems. Maj heavy tyrants are just strange and usually are hunting stunner mobs with Tank friends, doing AOE, mostly Rabbit.
no one armor will be your be all armor. however, most tyrants got addicted to speed from level 40. so the 8% haste from Tallum is very hard to pass up.
the decision of armor really depends on your playstyle. whats good for me might NOT be good for you.
high HP areas are again Catacombs, Wall of Argos. herb areas - good area is Blazing swamp. all the way to 74. some do Forest of the Dead, but that area requires much support.
the tyrant's versatility changes at 74 with the introduction of Hawk totem. Focus becomes an important factor of your game. now Majestic heavy becomes a big help (adding crit damage via patk bonuses) to your mob soloing game. now draconic light doesnt seem so great.
4. S grade and your final setup.
i am not speaking from experience, only from the changes that Gracia Final brings; given the ability to enchant your skills with elemental attribute, you will need to knuckle down and discover what arrangement of element will provide you with best pve damage output and pvp damage absorption/output. ask clanmates, try things. chances are if you screw up with an element, someone else may find it useful. just make sure to keep tabs on your enemies. elements are your friend and may also be your undoing. in any case, you will again be faced with Health or Focus for your Demon Splinters. both have their uses. both have their downsides. with health, you forego some output damage in lieu of being a tougher opponent to kills. with Focus its the opposite way around. your melee damage increases, but your toughness is not so much.
again you'll need to keep up with your clan in order to obtain the good moneymaking ventures of the end game. the decision between Varkas and Ketras should be obvious, but sometimes your clan may surprise you. hunting IOP, hunting Hellbound, all will need good support despite being herb yielding zones.
if you were to hunt in Imperial Tomb, remember that most Bugs are weak to Fire. and most Demons and Undead are weak to Holy.
5. General notes
Totems disappear when you equip non-fist weapons. this used to be with just one exception, but that rule is obsolete in this Gracia:Final update. using a Polearm will require skill, and a lot of help. using a bow for ranged PVP will not be your only method of ranged DPS, with this update.
Regarding Skill levels of your AOE skills: it seems these skills do obtain elemental enhancement as well, so learning all levels of the skill (although it makes for a mana-heavy tyrant) will be come pvp important, should you choose to use them in PVP. i know i dont.
6. tattoos.
theres 3 basic setups for tyrants, all of which have their uses and drawbacks. in order of popularity:
1. +4Str -8dex +4con (optional +1/-1 of your choice). the -8 dex does NOT take a way much attack speed, crit rate, evasion, or accuracy. i was cheap and used -10 dex for a long time; crit rate (when bison was popular) was never worrysome to begin with. lost about 17 points of speed, and about 80 attack speed. no real impact on accuracy (puma and bison both give accuracy) and evasion is gimp anyway as i was in Tallum heavy; incidentally this also compensated for some loss in attack speed. in the comping update of Gracia Final, this setup will no longer be the best option, however.
2. +4str +4dex -8con. believe it or not, theres tyrants that use these dyes and still manage to bison properly and live to tell the tale. not lying or trolling here folks. the trouble is, i cant seem to think of a great advantage you would have when using this dyes setup in Gracia Final, either. firstly, your runspeed would already be through the roof for pveing or pvping with Rabbit. stunner mobs, however, will find you to be a nice light snack. consider yourself dead at any pvp, too.
3. +4STR -2dex -2con (optional +1str-1dex). this may be the best setup youll find for all purposes. no noticeable loss of hp or stun resistance, no noticeable loss of runspeed/etc. and better Patk is always nice.
this part of the guide is really open to interpretation; theres a lot of ways to dye yourself, these ones i noted however are simply my point of view. if you felt like it, the option is always open for +4con-4str but ive never seen it on any serious tyrant.
When you say majestic heavy over drac light i lol'd
For the most part you got a lot of good info, but you have far more pdef in drac light than any A grade heavy armor. there is a reason that every S grade GK (tyrant) is in drac light, it is by far the best armor to use.
When you say majestic heavy over drac light i lol'd
For the most part you got a lot of good info, but you have far more pdef in drac light than any A grade heavy armor. there is a reason that every S grade GK (tyrant) is in drac light, it is by far the best armor to use.
(says a lvl 81 GK)
true, but did you read WHY i said Maj heavy over drac light ?
i said it for the Patk. but the point is really moot. i've left it open to both opinion and experience. some don't find Drac Light to be best. i know several tyrants in IC, but again, its of little consequence.
each armor caters to a different style and crowd, ive only listed SOME reasons why you MIGHT take certain armors.
So its good for a Tyrant to wear heavy armor? I thought they could only wear light armor and dont they get accuracy and speed boost from light armor?
its a debateable point and really just a matter of playstyle.
i personally use tallum heavy, and when in a group i ask for Greater Shield instead of greater Might.
then i am far safer to use Bison.
however, given the nerf to bison in gracia final, and the boost to hawk - perhaps in some ways Light in A grade can be better, but remember Hawk doesnt come till 74.
it really doesnt make much difference light vs heavy. the minor boost to speed you receive is NOT equal to the boost to Pdef. you DONT have an equal trade especially since armor can be enchanted to various degrees, so in order to take full advantage of the small boost you get to speed you'll need to really put yourself in a situation where speed really counts.
its a debateable point and really just a matter of playstyle.
i personally use tallum heavy, and when in a group i ask for Greater Shield instead of greater Might.
then i am far safer to use Bison.
however, given the nerf to bison in gracia final, and the boost to hawk - perhaps in some ways Light in A grade can be better, but remember Hawk doesnt come till 74.
it really doesnt make much difference light vs heavy. the minor boost to speed you receive is NOT equal to the boost to Pdef. you DONT have an equal trade especially since armor can be enchanted to various degrees, so in order to take full advantage of the small boost you get to speed you'll need to really put yourself in a situation where speed really counts.
I don't remember the boost to hawk, but wasn't rabbit like the best one then? well soon?
and bison stayed nurfed at:
The skill will increase Accuracy by 6
If the character's HP sinks under 60%, P.Atk. is increased by 10%, the Crit. Rate by 100
If the character's HP sinks under 30%, P.Atk. is increased by 30%, the Crit. Rate by 300
duration 1min reuse 10min
and atk spd wont affect reuse time now :\
I am not quite 68 yet to get bison so i wont know what im missing but those ogre/hawk/rabbit changes are amazing.
^^
It sucks your not 68 yet, i played for a while got to 68 but then had to leave game for a bit. When i got back i made friends with a lvl 77 SE with a pp and BD out of party, and with bison i was able to go from 68-75 in like a month with a decent amount of time played, but only bison. No VR it worked well. Like spud said with GR shield it makes a difference. But with the new changes....hopefully everything will be better and faster.
I skimmed throu ur post so sorry if i missed it, but i have a tyrant alt and my main is a archer, how would the tyrant do in the archers maj light set?
I skimmed throu ur post so sorry if i missed it, but i have a tyrant alt and my main is a archer, how would the tyrant do in the archers maj light set?
edit: no tats, and using common DG's
You're better of using magestic heavy if it's for stun resist... there's no reason ever for a tyrant to use maj light...specially it being an archer armor. Only some classes like dagger and kamael use maj light for stun resist, but is quickly dropped for DC light for PvE or draconic by S grade.
You're better off using tallum heavy, DC light or even NM light
Tyrants are not good archers at all. they used to be but the range is horrible, the totems dont stack, except bison, and you really limit the ability of a tyrant using a bow. maybe they are good in A grade or lower, but in S grade bows on a tyrant is worthless. the only reason you might have one is for epic raids so i looks like your doing good dmg!
a tyrant with a bow has nearly 2x the attack speed of a normal HE even without stacking totems. dont forget zealot and FistFury works with a bow, too. with the graciaFinal changes, you wont have 500 crit rate, sure, but youll still have 800 attack speed and a ton of patk.
they arent the best, but they are vicious. at this point we arent sure yet if theyve undone the fist-only conditions on most totems, cause the translators sort of left that bit out.
if it ends up they did undo those conditions tyrants will OWN FACE, all +5dex'd and Rabbitted. but se dont know yet for sure. after the PTS (i'll be checking this totem conditionals FIRST, come PTS time) i hope we can come to some agreement, rubberduck. it seems every time we meet we are disagreeing.
Spud whats your PDef difference between Tallum Heavy and Dark Crystal Light with your light armor masteries?
What happened to Bear, no change?
And I agree with the Archer statement. They nerfed that a few updates ago. I still use a Drac bow in the L-room, seems to crit around 2k most of the time, very slow though.
Spud whats your PDef difference between Tallum Heavy and Dark Crystal Light with your light armor masteries?
What happened to Bear, no change?
And I agree with the Archer statement. They nerfed that a few updates ago. I still use a Drac bow in the L-room, seems to crit around 2k most of the time, very slow though.
no change to bear, no.
the Pdef thing - what do you want me to use to amplify the differences? L2calc will easily show you the numbers, but if you ask for my specific numbers for my own character, i'll be giving you numbers using +4/0/0/0 tallum, vs +3/3/3/3/3 DCLight (in the process of holding on to it for the time being but i may sell it if the price is right later).
i preferred the tallum heavy. i died way to quickly in DClight, even in places like Blazing swamps where i played 61-72. i think i took at least 2 deaths per level there.
90 Pdef fully buffed with totem made a difference between life or death?
I don't doubt you per se, but are you sure it wasn't just your perception, and they were actually very similar? It seems like such a small difference on paper.
I already bought Tallum Heavy for my Tyrant sub, because I thought the Defense would be great to pair with VR4 from my 2box in making her a brick wall, but I'm disappointed in the small difference between the two sets.
90 Pdef fully buffed with totem made a difference between life or death?
I don't doubt you per se, but are you sure it wasn't just your perception, and they were actually very similar? It seems like such a small difference on paper.
I already bought Tallum Heavy for my Tyrant sub, because I thought the Defense would be great to pair with VR4 from my 2box in making her a brick wall, but I'm disappointed in the small difference between the two sets.
the difference comes when youve got no enchants on your armor, or are comparing +0 DC to +4/3/3/3 tallum. and youre level 61 (no full Light masteries.)
ive got two COMPARABLE sets. but given i was solo from 61-72 (no buffpet, i levelled one and changed to tallum at the same time) and had only herbs for buffs ...
as the guide leaves it open to playstyle and preference let me just leave it there. notice theres a trickle of differences all the way around, not just in Pdef.
the difference comes when youve got no enchants on your armor, or are comparing +0 DC to +4/3/3/3 tallum. and youre level 61 (no full Light masteries.)
ive got two COMPARABLE sets. but given i was solo from 61-72 (no buffpet, i levelled one and changed to tallum at the same time) and had only herbs for buffs ...
as the guide leaves it open to playstyle and preference let me just leave it there. notice theres a trickle of differences all the way around, not just in Pdef.
Unfortunately I can't leave it there :P
I'd like your opinion here, comparing both sets +0 to +0 - with full Shillien Saint buffs, would the differences be noticeable? After seeing the screen shots it would appear that once you're buffed the differences are almost non-existent.
totems no longer disappear (nor loose their effects) when equipping other weapons (such as a bow or pole) but TEOTEMS MUST BE CAST WHEN FISTS ARE EQUIPPED!
i see this as a BIG + fr tyrants using a bow+hawk.
totems no longer disappear (nor loose their effects) when equipping other weapons (such as a bow or pole) but TEOTEMS MUST BE CAST WHEN FISTS ARE EQUIPPED!
i see this as a BIG + fr tyrants using a bow+hawk.
crap dagger tyrants...everywhere O.o...aoeing with orge O.o
i preferred the tallum heavy. i died way to quickly in DClight, even in places like Blazing swamps where i played 61-72. i think i took at least 2 deaths per level there.
The Light is better than the Heavy, obviously, IMO.
It's not all about the P.Def. That's a very one-dimensional way of looking at it.
The Accuracy, Evasion, and Speed are worth using Light over Heavy, especially for PvP. I would take the Speed, Evasion, and Accuracy in PvE too.
Trading Speed, Accuracy, and Evasion for that amount of P.Def isn't optimal, IMO. The lack of Evasion shows how exaggerated the benefits of the extra P.Def really are, TBH. You will take more hits over time which curbs the benefit of the P.Def down somewhat (and factorably in some situations).
You're only 74. Those stats you lose from equiping Heavy armor matter when PvPing enemies higher level than you, or PvEing in higher XP areas.
3 Accuracy, 10 Speed, and [LOL, seriously] 10 Evasion for < 100 P.Def? Are you on crack?
The 20 Atk Speed you get from Tallum and the 90'ish P.Def is much less factorable than that which is in the above statement... Those screens only prove how dumb Heavy on a Tyrant is (at least in A Grade). Seriously, there is absolutly nothing in those screens that should persuade anyone to wear Tallum Heavy over DC Light.
theres nothing in any of my posts in this entire thread that is trying to convince anyone to use one or the other. i was prompted for screens - i delivered. the guide was left open for people to make up their own minds to what they want to use.
Light... heavy... really is a matter of style more than anything else.
But why not go +4str -4con, if you have oop healer (EE or Bish)? Health is not a problem that way. Is frenzy that much of a coin dealer?
well, its an option. HP doesnt really matter now given you wont need excessive amounts of it to safely spam Bison totem.
i wouldnt, however. given the amount of Stun type mobs in the existing world. even OOP buffers dont help with pve stunner mobs unless they are live buffers which help you by debuffing /zzz/etc
it is entirely up to you, i listed three choices that i have used and still do from time to time.
personally i'll be taking the +4-2-2 route when our server rolls to validation period next.
You should not be endorsing the idea of wearing Heavy over Light armor in C-A Grade on a Tyrant. That's the point. Edit your "guide" and tell them to wear light, cause Heavy isn't an option.
Things don't become an option unless they are optimal choices. +90 P.Def/20 Atk Speed at the loss of 3 Acc/10 Spd/10 Evasion makes the heavy inoptimal...
I doubt that 90 P.Def is having a factorable affect on your Bisoning, considering you lost 10 Evasion to get that P.Def.
I agree that going ---CON is a bad idea. The -CON also raypes your carrying capacity, which is a PvE factor :P
Non-optimal doesn't mean it isn't an option. The two terms do not mean the same thing and some players just don't care about being optimal all the time.
You should not be endorsing the idea of wearing Heavy over Light armor in C-A Grade on a Tyrant. That's the point. Edit your "guide" and tell them to wear light, cause Heavy isn't an option.
Things don't become an option unless they are optimal choices. +90 P.Def/20 Atk Speed at the loss of 3 Acc/10 Spd/10 Evasion makes the heavy inoptimal...
I doubt that 90 P.Def is having a factorable affect on your Bisoning, considering you lost 10 Evasion to get that P.Def.
I agree that going ---CON is a bad idea. The -CON also raypes your carrying capacity, which is a PvE factor :P
you dont really get it, being a non-melee class.
evasion doesnt mean anything. i was dying just as fast in DCLIght as i am in Tallum heavy. the armor did not make bisoning safer nor worse. it actually was the area. at the time i moved from DCLight to tallum hvy i also moved from Blazing swamp to WOA.
i wrote the guide giving everyone the option to play as they please in whatever armor suits them aesthetically and mentally. believe it or not some people "feel" safer in heavy simply because it is heavy.
given they are equal armors under all circumstances it really truly does boil down to play style. herbs/no herbs. heavy/light. focus/haste. they are all different and some people prefer one over the other.
they all balance out at one point too, so again to make the point for a final (hopefully) time it really all boils down to style.
the numbers are equal trades.
edited to add: i am not endorsing anything. you fail at reading.
you dont really get it, being a non-melee class.
You don't have to be a Tyrant to see why Heavy is not an optimal choice, or even an alternative in the lower levels.
evasion doesnt mean anything. i was dying just as fast in DCLIght as i am in Tallum heavy. the armor did not make bisoning safer nor worse. it actually was the area. at the time i moved from DCLight to tallum hvy i also moved from Blazing swamp to WOA.
MOBs in BS use Attributed [Dark] Attacks, and the Shaman Nuke relatively hard. The Overlords use skills, also. Going to BS in Heavy instead of Light will have very little impact on you surviveability there. If you die in Light, you will more than likely die in Heavy. 90 P.Def isn't a great improvement when you consider what you lose, and BS is a bad example since many mobs there ignore P.Def (Nukes) or have fortified attacks (Attribute).
The Evasion means about as much as that P.Def does. The Speed and Accuracy are > the 20 Attack Speed and 90 P.Def you get from Tallum Heavy. I fail to see how that 90 P.Def is having such a factorable impact on you Bisoning, TBH. Where are you Bisoning at levle 74? BS (and dying to nukes due to low HP)?
i wrote the guide giving everyone the option to play as they please in whatever armor suits them aesthetically and mentally. believe it or not some people "feel" safer in heavy simply because it is heavy.
Then you should tell them that just because it's heavy doesn't mean it's worth wearing. I know daggers that wear heavy. That's their choice, but Heavy is not optimal on a Tyrant or Dagger. IC Heavy may be good because the set bonus is rather nice from a surviveability perspective, but in C-A Grade there are few Heavy Sets worth wearing on a Dagger, Tyrant, or Archer... If any. Those screens tell me that Tallum Heavy isn't worth the extra investment, and it's not worth it to upgrade from PL to Tallum Heavy over DC Light or even Majestic Light, IMO.
given they are equal armors under all circumstances it really truly does boil down to play style. herbs/no herbs. heavy/light. focus/haste. they are all different and some people prefer one over the other.
No. Heavy < Light on a Tyrant. People are free to play in whichever way they like, but none of our personal opinions [to the opposite] will change that.
they all balance out at one point too, so again to make the point for a final (hopefully) time it really all boils down to style.
Lol. Seriously? Tyrants were never balanced for Heavy Armor, and Heavy Armors are not balanced with Tyrants in mind. That is why they lose more than they gain by equipping Heavy. 90 P.Def and 20 Atk. Speed with -10 Speed/Evasion -3 Accuracy is not balanced...
Do you even PvP? You get rayped even harder with such a setup...
the numbers are equal trades.
No they aren't.
edited to add: i am not endorsing anything. you fail at reading.
Okay.
I think you have very little experience in different XP areas. There are a slew of other areas for Tyrants to XP at various levels that you dont' mention. In fact, you mentioned some of the worst places for Tyrants to XP. Blazing Swamp... Seriously?
I have to admit I am biased AGAINST Blazing Swamp. But there are at least 2-3 other places which are better. It was a nice effort, though...
i never had one till i reached 72. i decided i needed one to keep going. my clan couldnt help much with that, and my sellshop account wasnt doing much ...
they are equal trades. you have 0 idea what youre talking about. your attempt at a retort was nothing but a personal attack. haste vs focus argument logic applies here. i dare you to call me on haste > Focus. seriously, your heavy vs light argument is completely invalid and full of nonsense it makes you look pathetic.
-10 evasion is countered with +12 evasion from Rabbit (a viable pve alternative) and any +evasion augment. -3 accuracy is countered at the SAME totem with +6 acc.
thats the great thing about totems. if you play in one set of gear, you can use one totem and do just fine. switch gear and you can switch totem for a net effect of 0
FAIL HARDER.
Blazing swamp has bad exp, yes. but more kills per hour makes it on par with other places to exp. besides that farming reagents is a big plus. i was making nearly 90kills an hour there with just a BD and herbs. in a catacomb you'd make lot less kills but the exp earned would balance out.
it aint the spot, mate. its how you work it. hence why i made reference to so many places to exp. you can do it in catas IF YOU PREFER. you can do it in fields IF YOU PREFER. its ALL THE SAME.
you can try to say concretely one is better than the other but again it all depends your perspective.
2. i never had one till i reached 72. i decided i needed one to keep going. my clan couldnt help much with that, and my sellshop account wasnt doing much ...
3. they are equal trades. you have 0 idea what youre talking about. your attempt at a retort was nothing but a personal attack. haste vs focus argument logic applies here. i dare you to call me on haste > Focus. seriously, your heavy vs light argument is completely invalid and full of nonsense it makes you look pathetic.
4. -10 evasion is countered with +12 evasion from Rabbit (a viable pve alternative) and any +evasion augment. -3 accuracy is countered at the SAME totem with +6 acc.
5. thats the great thing about totems. if you play in one set of gear, you can use one totem and do just fine. switch gear and you can switch totem for a net effect of 0
6. FAIL HARDER.
7. Blazing swamp has bad exp, yes. but more kills per hour makes it on par with other places to exp. besides that farming reagents is a big plus. i was making nearly 90kills an hour there with just a BD and herbs. in a catacomb you'd make lot less kills but the exp earned would balance out.
8. it aint the spot, mate. its how you work it. hence why i made reference to so many places to exp. you can do it in catas IF YOU PREFER. you can do it in fields IF YOU PREFER. its ALL THE SAME.
9. you can try to say concretely one is better than the other but again it all depends your perspective.
1. That doesn't matter. Newbie buffs and leveling an SE on another account (if you can afford the 15 bucks, if you think boxing is botting then I guess you're S.O.L.) is not difficult. You get newbie buffs until levle 62. It's almost impossible to die on a Tyrant with VR4, Haste 2 and Perma Fist Fury at those levels. I know so. At higher levels make friends or roll you own buffer (you seemed to have). That's not an excuse for having a subpar setup.
2. Don't care about that.
3. They are not equal trades.
4. Totem works the same in Light and Heavy. This argument is not even an argument (or worth reading, TBH). You are still at a loss of Acc/Eva/Spd with the same buffs in Heavy compared to Light Armor. You get 90 P.Def and 20 Atk Speed in return. Very even tradeoff... You don't seem to PvP much, TBH... Obviously you don't PvE much, either...
5. The great thing about Totems is that they don't change depending on what armor you wear, and can be used regardless of what armor you have on. That makes the argument mute. You don't decide to use that totem just cause you're in Heavy Armor unless you don't get the fact that Tallum Heavy isn't worth wearing in A Grade on a Tyrant (as those screens prove).
6. Lol.
7. You need to do BS anyways since you probably need Reagents for when you finally get to Sub level, so there is some justification for leveling there. There are better places to level a Tyrant, much better, especially with VR and a BD.
8. No. It's not how you work it. BS just sucks. How many ways can you work BS? Please do elaborate. It's not sex. It's pretty static, IMO. You act like I haven't been to almost every spot there and seen how the MOB spawns are. Some of those spots are down right horrible (like all the way at the top near that raid boss).
9. No. It's not my opinion. Look at the screenshots you uploaded. Why you are trying to argue about it or shove it into some imaginary grey areas, however, is interesting...
your point of view is blazing swamp sucks and that DClight is greater than all.
i'd like to see you do blazing swamp in DClight. then i want you to do Blazing swamp in Tallum heavy. after youre done, go do WOA in DClight then tallum heavy. after youve done this report back with your conclusions.
i'll tell you this much, i wont be using DClight to hunt in varkas.
also trensharo, gestapoing DClight vs tallum heavy is not an adviseable use of your time. and despite your epic conclusions of immortality with VR4 you can still die, and that quite easily. you said it yourself, you dont pvp much do you?
Quote me saying DC Light > All. I said Light > Heavy on a Tyrant.
I said Light > Heavy.
The Tyrants I know who level in Varka use Drac.
People are free to have their opinions, but thinking the 90 P.Def has a huge impact on you leveling efficiency or safety is nothing but the placebo effect. Those Official Forum links are pretty non-factor to me.
You don't need Heavy to Bison. You just need to have adequate buffs :P
I'm only using the Tyrant to PL a BD for my main. Then I'm deleting it.
spud STATES that either light OR heavy works depending on ur playstyle and I agree with him as I have tried both light and heavy. (borrowed heavy from a friend) and honestly I didnt see any SIGNIFICANT difference worth warranting. this arguing is pretty pointless as he said it boils down to what you want.
BUT once you are high enuf for S grade then drac light >> any heavy for pvp and pve that is what i think.
also evasion isnt TOO big of a deal, I may dodge maybe twice during any normal 1x mob fight. and with the new ogre totem heavy will benefit even more (heavy gives more pdef and ogre is a percentage , therefore even more pdef)
heavy OR light works till s grade at that point light>heavy, drac is **** expensive tho ><
its all preference really and or how rich u are.
i personally use nightmare as it was the cheapest A grade and im a poor *******
the POINT of the post was to give people some guidance for gracia final as we ARE losing bison bascally, this is old news
spud STATES that either light OR heavy works depending on ur playstyle and I agree with him as I have tried both light and heavy. (borrowed heavy from a friend) and honestly I didnt see any SIGNIFICANT difference worth warranting. this arguing is pretty pointless as he said it boils down to what you want.
BUT once you are high enuf for S grade then drac light >> any heavy for pvp and pve that is what i think.
also evasion isnt TOO big of a deal, I may dodge maybe twice during any normal 1x mob fight. and with the new ogre totem heavy will benefit even more (heavy gives more pdef and ogre is a percentage , therefore even more pdef)
heavy OR light works till s grade at that point light>heavy, drac is **** expensive tho ><
its all preference really and or how rich u are.
i personally use nightmare as it was the cheapest A grade and im a poor *******
the POINT of the post was to give people some guidance for gracia final as we ARE losing bison bascally, this is old news
Neither is the 90 P.Def and 20 Atk Speed, which was my point.
Spudnik had in large letters that the thread was not accurate until Gracia Final, but he's still telling me to go Bison up.
Bison will be LOL in Gracia Final, and it will not be worth it to gear youself for Bison ("OMGZ... WANT 90 P.DEF!!!"). If you are goin to 50% HP in Varka with DC LIght, you're not going to have that much more in Heavy...
I'd just go PL until A Grade and then NM Light until S Grade when you can get Drac. I have much better buffs, though, and don't have to worry about dying, ever.
Neither is the 90 P.Def and 20 Atk Speed, which was my point.
Spudnik had in large letters that the thread was not accurate until Gracia Final, but he's still telling me to go Bison up.
Bison will be LOL in Gracia Final, and it will not be worth it to gear youself for Bison ("OMGZ... WANT 90 P.DEF!!!"). If you are goin to 50% HP in Varka with DC LIght, you're not going to have that much more in Heavy...
I'd just go PL until A Grade and then NM Light until S Grade when you can get Drac. I have much better buffs, though, and don't have to worry about dying, ever.
OMG GAIS, DON;T YEW GETTTIT????
You'll never be right until you bow down and agree with Trensharo, because he is L2God, and what he says goes. Any thread that doesn't say exactly what he feels is correct should be edited immediately, or removed.
Seriously, jerk, get off Spud's back. He's not telling anyone what armor to use. He simply posted numbers and told us we could decide for ourselves.
You had the choice to do the same thing, but instead chose to go on a tirade and try to force your opinion on how the class should be played on everyone. People don't respond well to coercion.
No one cares what you think anymore, go back to trolling the other boards.
Neither is the 90 P.Def and 20 Atk Speed, which was my point.
Spudnik had in large letters that the thread was not accurate until Gracia Final, but he's still telling me to go Bison up.
Bison will be LOL in Gracia Final, and it will not be worth it to gear youself for Bison ("OMGZ... WANT 90 P.DEF!!!"). If you are goin to 50% HP in Varka with DC LIght, you're not going to have that much more in Heavy...
I'd just go PL until A Grade and then NM Light until S Grade when you can get Drac. I have much better buffs, though, and don't have to worry about dying, ever.
actually thats where experience comes in very handy. having both sets i continued to level safely in varkas in tallum heavy bisoning solo without much outside heal influence apart from the odd GHP. also, from full HP, one recruit (if it managed to stun me) got me down only 40% (to 60% HP). thats a big difference. it also negates any usefulness of Evasion if there was any in the first place. explain how i took less damage, still loosing 10 evasion?
if i had my choice, i'd have taken Majestic heavy to hunt in Varkas. unfortunately nobody will buy my DC light set (not even those awesome smart tyrants who think and walk and talk like you do). also, i am saving for my S fists which i will once again be trying to craft probably near the end of next month.
Re: ways to work Blazing swamp. 1. hunt trees and marsh predators and bats (not eh bat lord groups) for really fast kills. theres a spot near the south east side that spawns rather densely and quickly, without need to move too far. and the times that you do need to move you can pop GHP (youll be Puma'ing for this section cause youve got too much Pdef for bison already) if needed and no HP herbs drop. this spot is great for 61-66. 66 to 72 you can do in the extreme southern part of the swamp where mobs are EVEN MORE tightly packed. they turn blue to you at 69, so walking 50 feet north to the orc scout spot puts your mobs at white con for another 3 levels. this you can do completely solo.
to do this with a buffer, you would start out at the orc scout spot, and move to wyrms and Shamans another 50 feet north when you get 69. the top part with the bat lord groups and guardians etc you can avoid completely if you wanted to and move to WOA at 72. if you didnt want to, the guardians and such can still be done quickly and more cheaply than any catacomb, whilst still soloing sans buffer. all this can be done safely in DClight. or tallum heavy (recommended again cause of bleed resist which happens constantly in Blazing swamp)
@supaBB Ogre currently gives +30% Pdef and Mdef, theres no change to that. the effect is amplified by buffs, however, which is what i showed in my screens. unfortunately i dont have Gr. Shield 3 and a stacking prophecy (no pof/cov), which would have shown the difference to be much much much greater than 90 pdef. it would in fact be closer to 300 pdef between sets, individually putting Pdef total in A grade approximately 1700.
remember i showed sets that were really close, enchantment speaking. if i had only +0 tallum, the difference would be non existant. in +4/3/3/3 tallum vs +0 DC the difference would be extreme.
currently i solo the huge mos rooms with hawk, drac set, focus 150 fire fists, and DC buffs
How is this soloing? The definition of soloing is solo. Buffs from a boxed buffer is not soloing. It's a two character party where one character isn't doing much.
You guys disagree with his guide? That's fine. Go write your own and stop trolling this one. This game needs more guides, not less.
currently i solo the huge mos rooms with hawk, drac set, focus 150 fire fists, and DC buffs.
if you have questions about how to lvl and play a tyrant/GK mail me.
Spud, go reroll dwarf or something...
quick question
should i level in Frozen lab for ice crystals? i hear i can get some eaa out of it from turning them into black crystals. maybe instead i should try Archaic Lab? they give pretty great exp, i hear.
how do i make money as a tyrant? what seeds give good rewards and will get me a good exp spot at the same time? how much time will i need to spend on IOP for element stones, and with which buffer?
its been a long time since anyone has referred as buffers counting. lol.
thats just the way the game has evolved over time.
BTW, EVASION IS VERY IMPORTANT, you dont ever notice it cause the dmg log goes so fast but evasion makes up far far more than pdef. look at it this way...rsk haste s80 weapons add 4 evasion (from memory)...that should tell you something about evasion
its been a long time since anyone has referred as buffers counting. lol.
thats just the way the game has evolved over time.
BTW, EVASION IS VERY IMPORTANT, you dont ever notice it cause the dmg log goes so fast but evasion makes up far far more than pdef. look at it this way...rsk haste s80 weapons add 4 evasion (from memory)...that should tell you something about evasion
Hunt where ever the heck you want to lvl! most places have quests to get stuff, i dont do seeds cause i hate competing with the lame farmers, but the great codran is great for CBP, can never have enough CBP.
i will say that i love the frozen lab quest, i must say that it is probably the best money making quest in game, but the exp there is not so good.
to make the most money from teh quest exchange for basic mats and sell.
i tried atriarc lab but that place was wayy to hard, i have always wondered what the purpose is for that horrible place. lol!
as far as iop goes...GK's are not the best class for that. and it takes a looong time to get stones. better off making adena and just buying the stones.
dont ask me how to make money, i barely make ends meat, some make more than others, but the key is time....lots and lots of time...
there spud, there is your answers...if you have more mail me. im going away for the weekend
How is this soloing? The definition of soloing is solo. Buffs from a boxed buffer is not soloing. It's a two character party where one character isn't doing much.
You guys disagree with his guide? That's fine. Go write your own and stop trolling this one. This game needs more guides, not less.
I solo with 3 OOP Buffers.
Solo is the number of players playing the toons. If you're controlling all you characters, you're soloing.
I think you meant "boxing"? People are usually refered to as multi-boxers (i.e. "I'm boxing Varka atm" or "I'm soloing with my boxed OL/SE/EE at Varka") when they solo with boxed buffers.
Having boxed buffers doesn't = not soloing.
And you have to be a masochist to level up all the way without a boxed buffer. I don't think I know anyone without a boxed buffer, except a few people who play Summoners (and of course live buffers - although most of them have a boxed buffer for their sub :P).
This game is not dynamic enough to really need any guides.
However he did confirm my argument has lots of merit.
10 Evasion > 90 P.Def
L2P
no, actually, he only said Evasion plays a good role in your pve experiences - given he is in Mos, Evasion really DOES play a role cause he's facing archer mobs.
and he's in drac light, a completely different armor set than the 2 we've been discussing.
in fact, trensharo, you and i both agree Drac Light is the ideal S choice
youre still hating on me and not looking objectively at the facts.
fact A: i set up screens of 2 very closely enchanted A sets. yet you still think in general the only difference between light and hevy is 90 pdef - which it isnt. i should actually hve shown my character in +4 maj heavy set vs +0 DC light set to give you an accurate depiction of Light vs Heavy how EXTREME the Pdef swing is. i also did not give you full buffed screens involving prophecy. you. still. fail.
fact b: A grade is very different from S grade, as are the uses of each totem. if i were to use Ogre, remember i'd be using it in a PVP situation like the Olympiad where i am actually facing class based fights or am 3v3. in a situation where every Pdef AAAAAAAAAAAND Mdef is critical, i'll be taking heavy despite the losses to evasion (lol HE in Oly)
Fact C the game is VERY dynamic as a tyrant. you have a TON of options gear wise at every level. every new skill brings new ways to play, and new weaknesses to overcome. guides are necessary for classes where your skillset changes your character in such a dynamic way. the Soulbreaker and Berzerker are 2 more classes we NEED guides for due to such complete extremes of gameplay variation.
Fact D you arent even a melee class. youre not able to speak of the importance of Pdef, or the varieties of obstacles each totem brings as you really are only looking at one method of playing. the cheapest. theres at least 9 different ways to play a tyrant and at least 3 kinds of PVE you find yourself faced with. as a SPS, youve got 2 ways to play your character. this kind of constriction has led you to think theres only 2 ways to play ANY character.
regardless of the "best" way, sometimes you cant play the "best" way or its just not fun. i know i wont see 150 X element until another year or so, and then i am sure theyll have raised the element thing to like 10000 or something, so it wont much matter. its the best way, but i cant get there. alternatives... these are what one has to look at when you cant get the "best".
alternatives are what ive tried to outline, and are what youve shat on.
This game is not dynamic enough to really need any guides.
You don't write guides for people that have been here forever. You write the guides for people like me who are playing the game for the first time. I've only been here a month and there are still lots of things I have to ask people questions about because no one explains them anywhere and the few guides there are out there all tend to be horribly outdated.
From my point of view, Spud's guide is a good guide for a new player to get a feel for how to play the class and whether or not he'll enjoy playing the class. By the time a new player hits S grade I'm sure he'll be able to decide on his own the merits of heavy vs. light armor.
EDIT: I just ran to MoS and checked. Archer MOBs aren't until the top 30% of the zone, if even that much.
The entire bottom part of MoS is two sides. There are about 20 rooms down there with MOBs and MOB groups and they're all Angels, Silents, and Solina MOBs (with Monestary Guardians).
Vast Majority of the Zone aren't Angels. There's an Dynasty-geared Duelists Xping on the Angels/Black MOBs at the moment, and another 78 or 79 Kamael poling the Library.
By the time you get to the point where you can solo those MOBs up there (and you will have a long time to wait with your lolbuffs), you'll prolly be XPing in Hellbound anyways (unless you have no friends, which wouldn't be a suprise).
EDIT: I just ran to MoS and checked. Archer MOBs aren't until the top 30% of the zone, if even that much.
The entire bottom part of MoS is two sides. There are about 20 rooms down there with MOBs and MOB groups and they're all Angels, Silents, and Solina MOBs (with Monestary Guardians).
Vast Majority of the Zone aren't Angels. There's an Dynasty-geared Duelists Xping on the Angels/Black MOBs at the moment, and another 78 or 79 Kamael poling the Library.
By the time you get to the point where you can solo those MOBs up there (and you will have a long time to wait with your lolbuffs), you'll prolly be XPing in Hellbound anyways (unless you have no friends, which wouldn't be a suprise).
so basically, youre telling me evasion doesnt matter. cause theres only a piddly amount of Archer mobs to face. yes?
He's talking about the Bow MOBs in the top of MoS. He calls them Archer MOBs because they have BOWs. I just went check to see where these MOBs started. By the time you get to them, you won't be XPing in MoS unless you're either Locked out of every part of HB or have no friends.
The nuker mobs are ranged, and more of a factor than those "archers" :P
and no it hasnt. RubberDuck stated simply Evasion was useful in MOS.
can you stop making me the posterboy for tyrants? i am not. i am not, and neither is 90 pdef vs 10 evasion. that is NOT the only comparison of DCLight vs Tallum heavy, but you dont want to listen. Rubberduck should be posterboy, if anyone, given he is the only high level GK posting in this thread with any advice (albeit bad). you transharo, seem of all people one to respect a player for his level rather than anything that in any way disagrees with you.
10 evasion vs 90 pdef is MY (lets backtrack so you can read that again... "YM is fedp 09 sv noisave 01" ) 10 EVASION VS 90 PDEF IS MY case comparison for MY gear.
MY. not yours, not anyone else's.
MY case, does not make ME the representative of tyrants everywhere.
MY thread was simply to give MY point of view on playing the class, and demonstrating its robust style, different from all classes as tyrants are not cookie-cutter copy-paste characters. no two tyrants will be played the same. the same conclusion cannot be made for your Archers or Nukers. seldom do you see a Nuker in heavy with a FB/health. or an Archer with a 2hb in Robes. the classes were just not made for these things. but tyrants are.
YOU have made MY case comparison to be the ONLY comparison of the two armor sets.
a. you have not seen the other set bonuses and regarded them as important.
b. you have not seen the comparison between other A grade sets
c. you have not listened when i have shown you MY experience. i dont understand why, really, i'm higher level than you and have been a tyrant for far longer. should stand to reason my advice is sound (though, i havent given any, just posted shots and let people make up their own minds. ive left the advice to the people in the know... and you seem to have let yourself in through that door).
youre not looking objectively trensharo. youve missed the point altogether. ive made the point about 4 times now in this thread.
My conclusions are corect. "Don't waste money buying Heavy Armor to XP on a Tyrant."
Your arguments, however, are fail.
There is no reason to wear heavy on a Tyrant as it will not give a Tyrant a factorable surviveability increase, if any, over Light Armor.
"Your case" is highly biased. 90 P.Def/20 Atk Speed <<< 10 Evasion/3 Accuracy/10 Speed on a Tyrant. You don't have to be a level 85 GK with every armor set in the game to see this very plain fact.
There is no reason to wear heavy on a Tyrant as it will not give a Tyrant a factorable surviveability increase, if any, over Light Armor.
Likewise nothing you have posted has convinced me that Light armor adds any survivability over Heavy. Thus we end up at the original conclusion: you can wear whichever suits your playstyle.
You can claim the 10 evasion rocks my s0x0rs all you want, but until I see proof (i.e. MATH) this is all just blowing smoke.
My conclusions are corect. "Don't waste money buying Heavy Armor to XP on a Tyrant."
Your arguments, however, are fail.
There is no reason to wear heavy on a Tyrant as it will not give a Tyrant a factorable surviveability increase, if any, over Light Armor.
"Your case" is highly biased. 90 P.Def/20 Atk Speed <<< 10 Evasion/3 Accuracy/10 Speed on a Tyrant. You don't have to be a level 85 GK with every armor set in the game to see this very plain fact.
Thanks for the entertainment though.
as are your numbers, trensharo. my case of biased numbers is for those two particular sets. THEY DONT REPRESENT NUMBERS OF MAJ HEAVY VS NM LIGHT! or maj heavy vs DClight, even.
i showed two SIMILAR sets. MINE. YOU will not be faced with 90pdef/20 atk speed vs 10/3/10. because YOU are going to pick up NMlight, youve already said that. MY agruments of one armor vs another havent even made it to this thread. mainly because my agruments of one vs another are irrelevant arguments for the changes brought about by Gracia Final. i no longer need all the pdef i can get to bison, cause i wont be bisoning. the change is now to crit rate and Patk boosting. this is the new "must have" stat for tyrants in gracia final. not pdef.
theres a big diffrence between DC and NM, i suggest you do your own Calc crunch of the two sets to see how FAIL nm light is.
once again youre making my "biased" case the sum of all armors and buffs for Tyrants in A grade.
here is how good evasion is.... s80 augment gives risk evasion at 6.8 evasion under 60% hp. now if evasion is no big deal then 6.8 evasion is very very little wouldnt you say??? you say that -10 evasion is no big deal...like its losing 10 pdef, but in fact you are losing the equivilent of hundreds of pdef and mdef since you can avoid entire attacks. if you get hit for 250dmg with light armor, you will get hit for about 244dmg with +90 pdef. there is your math...
i have used, nm heavy, tallum heavy, maj heavy on my tyrant at one point of another. i have also used dc, nm light.
the absolut best pve armor is DC light with an se or wc. and NM light solo or with pp buffs.
i will say that most heavy armors look way cooler than light on an orc.
but there really is no arguing that heavy is better for any other reason than looks.
if you are jsut starting a tyrant. go light armor, do not go heavy, you only handicap the most fun class in the game with heavy.
here is how good evasion is.... s80 augment gives risk evasion at 6.8 evasion under 60% hp. now if evasion is no big deal then 6.8 evasion is very very little wouldnt you say??? you say that -10 evasion is no big deal...like its losing 10 pdef, but in fact you are losing the equivilent of hundreds of pdef and mdef since you can avoid entire attacks. if you get hit for 250dmg with light armor, you will get hit for about 244dmg with +90 pdef. there is your math...
i have used, nm heavy, tallum heavy, maj heavy on my tyrant at one point of another. i have also used dc, nm light.
the absolut best pve armor is DC light with an se or wc. and NM light solo or with pp buffs.
i will say that most heavy armors look way cooler than light on an orc.
but there really is no arguing that heavy is better for any other reason than looks.
if you are jsut starting a tyrant. go light armor, do not go heavy, you only handicap the most fun class in the game with heavy.
i dont doubt you feel evasion is great. hey more power to you if you can manage to live through it. i just havent seen a use for it personally.
A grade fists also give 7 evasion. C grade gives 11 in some cases.
S80 is no more powerful evasion than C grade RSK evasion. since removing my ludicrously heavy -10 dex tattos, ive now got 115 evasion in DClight given the same buffs as in the screens i showed. since removing the tattos ive gained 5 evasion for 10 dex.
i have a Plainswalker (49) set up for MAXIMUM evasion, and on her ive got about 106 evasion in C grade under 60% hp.
on the Plainswalker i evade 3 out of 10 general attacks in pve. thats still 7 chances for a mob to crit-kill me cause ive got basically no hp to hold me up, and no patk to vr anything back. i suspect when i get to Sandbomb stuff, i'll face a mana issue.
my LoLverlord had the same issue, spamming seal of chaos had me out of mana for rebuff and had me evading slightly more, about 4 of 10. being in robes, i still died just as fast and did not benefit from the evasion. his evasion was about 103 at level 48.
i can see evasion being great for HIGHER LEVEL daggers doing PVP only. where evasion boosts your capacity. evasion stun, etc. THAT i can see as a great use of evasion.
but pve - nope. not seeing it.
wednesday comes, i'll try rabbiting at varkas. maybe i'll evade the Stun attacks of recruits.
btw, duckie, you still didnt tell me when they made the change that you can evade magic. i see no notes that indicate this unless ive skipped over something.
so lets look at it this way. you get hit 250 per hit from mob, with 90 more pdef you get hit for 244 or even 240dmg per hit, but you get hit 10/10 hits that equals 2400dmg
lets say you get hit for 250dmg but evade 1 out of 10 so that equals 2250dmg
with the rates you were giving me, evading more than 1 out of 10 there is an even greater increase in the validity of my point.
for evading 1 out of 10 to be worth giving up you would have to increase your pdef to get hit for less than 225 per hit. thats a 10% decrease in dmg per hit to make up for the 1 evaded attack... now if you evade 2 hits in 10, then 20% decrease in dmg per hit to make up the difference if you dont evade any.
whos going to stand there and take those hits though? i suspect nobody will. punch kill speed up fast enough and evasion becomes useless. with POF in varkas from a very kind friend the other day i was critting mobs for 2100 dmg, 470 rate, 1002 atk speed. i maybe took 1 hit.
for evasion to be useful it had better be close to 50% chance to evade that 1 hit. instead it is only 10% chance. thats only slightyl better than chance haste trigger, and already 3x better chance than chance invulnerability.
my 130ish evasion with rabbit is not going to be of much better help, i suspect. cause i'll be taking more hits (being able to crit less often).
but youve still missed the point with your math; my Plainswalker doesnt have 2250 HP when under 60%. i cant survive unless i had 50-60% chance to evade, even. hoping Sandbomb and seal of chaos land (if i paired with an OL) and stack, i might get that. but i still doubt it. you sacrifice too much kill power to merit Evasioning from C to s80.
omg, im done. you have absolutly looked like a fool, i am not even gonna argue anymore. everyone sees what you jsut wrote and what i wrote, they can make their own decisions.
jsut wow man, i give you math and you just deny it...
I prefer have Ic set w/ pdef bonus and all that and the pvp effect that decreases enemys atk speed over having "chance mirage" "wink""wink" effect
but for pve sure light is better
i went from 68 to 79 in Nm set bison with nm set vr bonus only was best that ever happend
with bison getting put down we all need to see what is gona be best to pvp/xp with but oh well , we will see
i probly use ogre/hawk over sss spammer rabbit :P
Dan
S Grade sets are completely different from A Grade Sets. IC is a really good Heavy Set. Tallum compared to Maj/DC/NM Heavy isn't as impressive as IC compared to Drac when you are contrasting Heavy and Light armor types.
Spudnik isn't S Grade, so the extra armor is a waste of adena. He is free to do what he chooses, though. There is no benefit from wearing Light below S Grade and even in S Grade you will do most of you PvE and PvP in Drac anyways, unless you just like to be different like those daggers that run around in IC Heavy :P
Spudnik there is a reason why the Focus/Rsk Evasion effects curb down as the grades go up :P
omg, im done. you have absolutly looked like a fool, i am not even gonna argue anymore. everyone sees what you jsut wrote and what i wrote, they can make their own decisions.
jsut wow man, i give you math and you just deny it...
Spudnik is like that :P
spudnik you are sooo clueless, i was using fictitius dmg counts just to prove a point how much of an effect evasion has. with rabbit and evasion from a DC i have a 157 evasion...and +4 on my passive for evasion (going to like 15 once final comes out). evasion rox my sox off!!!!
spudnik you are sooo clueless, i was using fictitius dmg counts just to prove a point how much of an effect evasion has. with rabbit and evasion from a DC i have a 157 evasion...and +4 on my passive for evasion (going to like 15 once final comes out). evasion rox my sox off!!!!
you used fiction to prove something?
cmon rubberduck, give us NONFICTION. 157 evasion? great!! how often do you evade? how much HP do you loose per mob if you didnt spam GHP? how often do you evade Magic?
hell, i can post fiction too, but it doesnt prove anything.
my god spudnik...you amaze me, those screens are horrible! and they are S grade! thought you made a point that S grade is different so i taylored my argument to A grade armor. and btw. useing ogre to make a point when it is not gonna - evasion next update...pfft...and you have used teh argument that your guide is for final!!!! you contradict yourself everwhere! its like a field day picking you apart and i love it! hahaha!
i showed you with some easy math how effective evasion is but you just cant wrap your head around what i was even showing you! lol!
if i were you i would stop posting in this thread cause you have lost. you have no more air in your sails to even argue your point, its over done finished...move on...
trensharo; i was prompted for PDEF screens of DC vs tallum, i delivered, making no comments. you stuck your butt in there claiming Light is always better than Heavy for tyrants. you dont get it that sometimes Heavy is a better alternative, but most times it evens out pretty well.
rubber duck: i showed screens of S grade gear in the same setup as before. it is a sound parrallel as we are only considering Heavy vs Light in a Pdef perspective as per the poster that requested screens in the first place.
a. yes, i know this information is old, and will be outdated come tomorrow. but not by a whole lot, cause as it is Ogre boosts Pdef and Mdef. the evasion drop will be moot. the screenshots are not part of the guide, either. fail more. the guide, if you wanted just the guide is available at stratics, as well as the complete guide posted right at the first post of page 1. everything else has been commentary and bickering over heavy vs light. but thanks for thinking i failed. i sure tried hard to beat your evasion "proof" with some experience of my own.
b. you showed nothing. you gave a hypothetical situation. you see 10% evasion rate as great evasion, where i have shown by experience that evasion at 40% still manages to fail greatly, and cause you to really loose out on combat-driven boosts.
c. the reason you are 81 is the same reason i am 75. well, 74. we both bisoned from 68 onwards. you just started earlier than i did. i started being a Tyrant around Interlude time.
d. please trensharo, try to stick to your arguments. first you argue you need to be in Light for any Pdef numbers to be accurate. are you now saying i have to put a fist on, get an SA, put on a tattoo set, maybe enchant the gear to +4/3/3/3, add elemental resists, get songs and dances, and then you'll believe the Pdef differences as being valid? seriously do you know anything about being a tyrant? you dont gain evasion/pdef from equipping a weapon unless that weapon happens to have an Evasion SA or Evasion+pdef augment.
i have not failed, you have seriously boggled any hope anyone had of believing you. enjoy your fail.
its a calculator. its not real. doesnt need to be to show you the differences in gear either. at least it is valid as a calculator for finding the values of armor and weaponry given buffs. the screens are valid still, will be until they change the S set bonuses or passives for most classes.
its only 2 more screens to figure out what the new Totems will give. and even if you wanted to figure it out yourself, the data for being buffed without a totem is available. a simple calculator will assist you from there.
i have not failed, i have delivered and you have smitten me for doing so.
trensharo; i was prompted for PDEF screens of DC vs tallum, i delivered, making no comments. you stuck your butt in there claiming Light is always better than Heavy for tyrants. you dont get it that sometimes Heavy is a better alternative, but most times it evens out pretty well.
Excuse me? read my participation in this thread. I have stated that Light was greater than Heavy and I listed all benefits from both sets to back that up. The Accuracy/Evasion/Spd from DC Light was > the 90 P.Def/20 Atk Speed from Tallum Heavy. That is what I said.
Now you list a Tyrant in Light and Heavy and don't put Tats or a weapon on it? Gratz. You're also missing some buffs and forget that you can take resist buffs in some areas (like MoS) to decrease the damage done by the MOBs. Do you really think 90 P.Def is worth more than 50 Holy Resist in MoS? Do you think that 200 P.Def is worth using IC Heavy (and spending money on Divine Stones for it) instead of using Drac Light and putting Dark Resist on it for Hellbound?
Heavy is 99% of the time fail on a Tyrant in PvE. There is no reason to wear it in A Grade - at all.
d. please trensharo, try to stick to your arguments. first you argue you need to be in Light for any Pdef numbers to be accurate.
How is that possible? We're comparing Light to Heavy. You have to wear both to see how the stats (all of them, not just P.Def) compare. I have already said that IC Set was different than Tallum... You cannot wear IC Heavy at 74/75. Why are you wearing Tallum. For 90 P.Def/20 Atk. Spd. when you lose 10 Eva/Spd and 3 Accuracy?
You also posted screens of Ogre only, as if every Tyrant spends all their time running from MOB to MOB (in BS, of all places, where you have to run for miles at times) with 68 Speed, when they can run with 100+ Speed in another Totem and VR HP back at almost 2x the rate despite the P.Atk difference (and live longer) in Light due to Atk Speed differences (hi, stop dying in lolBS).
are you now saying i have to put a fist on, get an SA, put on a tattoo set, maybe enchant the gear to +4/3/3/3, add elemental resists, get songs and dances, and then you'll believe the Pdef differences as being valid?
No, I'm saying that the other stats may benefit the Light armor set even more on a Tatted Tyrant. I need to see the stats of a Tatted up, geared character, not a clean character with an armor set on.
Tats can affect your combat attributes. You didn't know that? Things like HP/EVA/ACC/PATK are changed depending on what Tat setup you have.
+Accuracy on a Tyrant in Heavy is less beneficiary than +Accuracy on a Tyrant in Light because a Tyrant in Heavy will have less Accuracy to begin with compared to a Tyrant in Light.
seriously do you know anything about being a tyrant?
Do you know how to read, or comprehend what you're doing (or how stupid it is?).
you dont gain evasion/pdef from equipping a weapon unless that weapon happens to have an Evasion SA or Evasion+pdef augment.
Exactly. We don't know what that tyrant has on his weapon, we don't know what Augmentation that Tyrant has. 60%+ damage increase from Weapon Attribute = 60%+ more HP VR'd back to the Tyrant. Things like that matter. Look at the whole picture, not puzzle pieces.
The Evasion + P.Def Aug on a Heavy Tyrant is the same on that same Tyrant in Heavy. Stop failing... Only differense is the Light Tyrant will benefit from the Evasion more since it has higher evation to begin with, and the P.Def will be a small bonus on tehs ide.
i have not failed, you have seriously boggled any hope anyone had of believing you. enjoy your fail.
Lol. Seriously...
its a calculator. its not real. doesnt need to be to show you the differences in gear either.
That was the original intent of it (it was deadly accurate at one time. It just hasn't been updated in a while and Lord knows how much we thank the author for his/her time investment in developing it and L2P (which you need to do).
at least it is valid as a calculator for finding the values of armor and weaponry given buffs. the screens are valid still, will be until they change the S set bonuses or passives for most classes.
That's incorrect. The totem Values are wrong, and there are no calculations for Elemental Attribute on weapon and Armor. The P.Def doesn't look so hot when you have Attribute to MOB types on you armor, which is worth more than that P.Def is in damage mitigation.
its only 2 more screens to figure out what the new Totems will give. and even if you wanted to figure it out yourself, the data for being buffed without a totem is available. a simple calculator will assist you from there.
I know what the data is. I want to know why you're putting obsolete information from L2Calc on the forums to "prove a point".
i have not failed, i have delivered and you have smitten me for doing so.
No. You have failed. Miserably...
Again. Stop focusing on P.Def. Everyone knows Heavy has greater P.Def than Light armor. You're trying to distract from the other things that make Light > Heavy on a Tyrant. Why do you think 99% of Tyrants wear Light for PvE. The ones that wear Heavy are the ones who are at war with Clan: MOBs and die to them...
End-Game itemization and game mechanics (like Attribute P.Atk/P.Def) negated the need for Tyrants to use Heavy at that level. There are uses for Heavy, but PvEing from 6x to 85 is not one of them.
i dont know any other way to get it thru your head that you will take a net of less dmg with higher evasion than higher pdef...
have yo forgot i have tried ALL DIFFERENT TYPES OF ARMOR HEAVY AND LIGHT!?
i have been there done that and light>heavy overall. yes heavy has more pdef but you get so much more that makes up the difference with light armor. the argument of higher pdef is ******ed as i have shown that if you evade 10% of attacks you need to increase your pdef by 10% just to match how well evasion works. and usually you will evade more than 10% of the time.
in S grade with teh element resists it just adds to the light armor argument.
quote me where i am disagreeing with either of you two! show me where i specifically say Heavy > Light ?
i wear tallum because i want to wear tallum. thats my preference.
it is a matter of preference, and yes trensharo, there ARE uses for pveing in heavy. you havent found them out. rubberducky confirms it. you need to add +10% pdef to compensate for a 10% loss in evasion, and ive lost far less than 10% evasion but gained a WHOPPING 30% pdef. equal trade.
rubber ducky... ogre boosts pdef by 30% and Mdef by 30%, and i loose 3 evasion (not anymore, used to) so yes, your argument is valid but you still dont see it as an even trade? you said it yourself. how much % rate of evasion is 3 evasion? not a helluvalot.
i know very well that you take less damage via higher evasion, you loltard.
you still havent enlightened us on your evasion numbers. how often do you evade magic? how often do you evade general attacks? if you sacrificed 10 or added 10 to your evasion how does that change your rates?
you have only assumed a rate of 10% as being a great evasion rate. can you or anyone else show a better rate?
spud you are so ignorant it boggles my mind. forget it, your a lost cause...at least the ppl who are wondering what armor to use will be smart enought to know to use light armor.
i am blatantly saying that light > heavy. period.
i tried to explain to you how important evasion is by using a figurative example and you think i am making stuff up? of course i made up the numbers but that is besides the point! i was making a different point on how effective evading jsut 1 attack out of 10 is compared to pdef!
you will never be able to get perfect in game numbers with evasion cause it varries widely from your lvl to the lvl of the mob/player/buffs. getting in game results from evasion is absolutly pointless.
Lol. So you're wrong, but you're trying to agree and insult at the same time as disagreeing?
loltard®?
Ogre does the same thing in Light that it does in Heavy. Stop using Totems as a scape goat.
You use Tallum Heavy cause you need to L2P.
no, i never said you were right or that i am wrong. i simply ALWAYS HAVE SAID its a matter of preference.
for your 3000 post count trensharo, you havent ONCE posted constructively. rubberducky just posted stuff out of thin air, expected me to believe it without anything concrete or anyone else's useful comparison.
things like "you can evade magic" where i cant find the notes where it says you can. never experienced the evading of such magic either.
once again trensharo FAIL MORE. I WAS ASKED FOR PDEF SCREENS OF BOTH SETS. i know very well you didnt exp in ogre before but you assumed that most tyrants did.
its what i was asked for and it is the conclusion you have used to debate Light vs heavy. you didnt see Puma screens where it would have shown 24% atk speed difference, and almost 1000 HP boost. you didnt see Bison screens which would have shown you MY character bisoning around 1900 hp in perfect safety despite having MINUS evasion.
needless to say OGRE is ironically the "PVP TOTEM" as advertised on blah, your favourite site. so youll be really likeing Ogre if you ever intend to do the lolympiad. those in the know will likely also try to do it in Heavy, knowing they dont loose enough evasion to call it an even trade, and combat stats are not affected by Light or heavy, simply set bonuses and weaponry.
so no, you based your WHOLE argument on Ogre. clearly before this update Bison would have had to be the comparison to make. and for tyrants going 61-68 it would have been looking more at Puma. ofc NOW this is not the case. NOW 62-74 youll be looking at using either Ogre or Rabbit. then afterwards looking at using hawk, and a Focus oriented weapon like a bow or sword or any such thing, as totems now work with all weaponry and do not loose their effects. Hawk + DracFo = better than fist.
spud you are so ignorant it boggles my mind. forget it, your a lost cause...at least the ppl who are wondering what armor to use will be smart enought to know to use light armor.
i am blatantly saying that light > heavy. period.
i tried to explain to you how important evasion is by using a figurative example and you think i am making stuff up? of course i made up the numbers but that is besides the point! i was making a different point on how effective evading jsut 1 attack out of 10 is compared to pdef!
you will never be able to get perfect in game numbers with evasion cause it varries widely from your lvl to the lvl of the mob/player/buffs. getting in game results from evasion is absolutly pointless.
no, i never said you were right or that i am wrong. i simply ALWAYS HAVE SAID its a matter of preference.
for your 3000 post count trensharo, you havent ONCE posted constructively. rubberducky just posted stuff out of thin air, expected me to believe it without anything concrete or anyone else's useful comparison.
things like "you can evade magic" where i cant find the notes where it says you can. never experienced the evading of such magic either.
once again trensharo FAIL MORE. I WAS ASKED FOR PDEF SCREENS OF BOTH SETS. i know very well you didnt exp in ogre before but you assumed that most tyrants did.
its what i was asked for and it is the conclusion you have used to debate Light vs heavy. you didnt see Puma screens where it would have shown 24% atk speed difference, and almost 1000 HP boost. you didnt see Bison screens which would have shown you MY character bisoning around 1900 hp in perfect safety despite having MINUS evasion.
needless to say OGRE is ironically the "PVP TOTEM" as advertised on blah, your favourite site. so youll be really likeing Ogre if you ever intend to do the lolympiad. those in the know will likely also try to do it in Heavy, knowing they dont loose enough evasion to call it an even trade, and combat stats are not affected by Light or heavy, simply set bonuses and weaponry.
so no, you based your WHOLE argument on Ogre. clearly before this update Bison would have had to be the comparison to make. and for tyrants going 61-68 it would have been looking more at Puma. ofc NOW this is not the case. NOW 62-74 youll be looking at using either Ogre or Rabbit. then afterwards looking at using hawk, and a Focus oriented weapon like a bow or sword or any such thing, as totems now work with all weaponry and do not loose their effects. Hawk + DracFo = better than fist.
I didn't assume anything. I just said it was a pretty useless setup.
I didn't assume anything. I just said it was a pretty useless setup.
There's a reason why most tyrants don't.
You can stop using big bold letters now.
Fail more.
you DID assume. thats why you always gave the point 90 pdef < 10 evasion. your assumption that the photos in question were of interest to exping and pvping caused you to look at the photos and ONLY SEE THOSE DIFFERENCES and base your entire hypothesis on this one totem.
i'll preach it how i see it. and as i see it youve completely wasted everyone's time.
rofl. you still dont even understand the point i was making about evasion. it doesnt matter what numbers you use to make the point i was making about evasion! hahaha.
and btw. ogre wont be the totem of choice in oly...
rabbit will be since you can enchant passive evasion on light armor mastery. gonna be pushing over 160 evasion in olympiad with over 1k attack speed. gonna be sick..cant wait to do it tonight!
spud, dont ever ever tell us what will and wont work in olympiad...period.
rofl. you still dont even understand the point i was making about evasion. it doesnt matter what numbers you use to make the point i was making about evasion! hahaha.
and btw. ogre wont be the totem of choice in oly...
rabbit will be since you can enchant passive evasion on light armor mastery. gonna be pushing over 160 evasion in olympiad with over 1k attack speed. gonna be sick..cant wait to do it tonight!
spud, dont ever ever tell us what will and wont work in olympiad...period.
i didnt tell you anything, L2blah tells everyone these things. go flame diego if you disagree with using ogre.
youre still full of cra$p since you dont want to tell me what rates of evasion you get. until you do, your posts are useless.
you DID assume. thats why you always gave the point 90 pdef < 10 evasion. your assumption that the photos in question were of interest to exping and pvping caused you to look at the photos and ONLY SEE THOSE DIFFERENCES and base your entire hypothesis on this one totem.
i'll preach it how i see it. and as i see it youve completely wasted everyone's time.
I dind't have to assume, you have Tallum Heavy and stated you level with it.
I only told u it was a crap setup.
There's no assumption.
And 90 P.Def/20 Atk Speed is still < 10 Evasion/3 Accuracy/10 Speed
I just told you to stop quoting me incorrectly, and removing half of what I said to further your agenda.
You still need to read the thread, so you can see how this "conversation" has progressed.
Unless you think 90 P.Def/20 Atk Speed > 10 Evasion/Speed and 3 Accuracy?
Do yah?
If you don't, then I fail to see your point.
Not reading the thread and making ******ed 1 liners does make you look like a ******, and some people like calling you out on it. I think I've used such words much less than Spudnik has in this thread :P Tame by comparison... Yes...
You still need to read the thread, so you can see how this "conversation" has progressed.
Unless you think 90 P.Def/20 Atk Speed > 10 Evasion/Speed and 3 Accuracy?
Do yah?
If you don't, then I fail to see your point.
Not reading the thread and making ******ed 1 liners does make you look like a ******, and some people like calling you out on it. I think I've used such words much less than Spudnik has in this thread :P Tame by comparison... Yes...
I had a post here, but I deleted it because you don't deserve an intelligent response to anything you've said here. I'll just leave you with this.
Just because you acted like LESS of a moron, doesn't mean you didn't act like a moron.
90 pdef 20 attack speed < 10 evasion 3 accuracy 10 speed regardless of the totem used. no matter what totem you use light is a better choice because of the light armor masteries
if you use common sets do what ever, its cheap and crude reguardless of heavy or light. and you probably dont care about the difference between light an heavy anyway.
better to do common item in A grade and save for s grade
boring since page 2... wait... first Trensharo's post is on page 2 isn't it ?
Please guyz stop killing this (interesting) thread. Tyrant has always been a class you can play with many type of stuff, depending of where, how, and why you play. Trensharo found THE way he likes to play his char, gratz to him. Anyone else has a good setup he'd prefer to play with ?
we got it, at least most of ppl who are reading the thread got it.
I'm close to 77 on my GK and often tried out many setup at 80+ like during PTS, and always found pros and cons in each one. So I understand what you're both saying, but as you say "you think that's the point" and IMO this quote should be the motto of everyone playing a tyrant.
No comment concerning caps or bold or whatever, we're not here to know who started (let's try to not act like spudnik's sign, maybe it's not too late :p)
You haven't gotten it by now. Even Tyrants in the S80 range have posted this in this thread to confirm that fact.
Just because Spudnik posts in Caps and Bold letters doesn't mean he is a God of Lineage II Game Mechanics.
Irony.
quote me where i disagree. however, nowadays DClight still doesnt offer much over tallum heavy.
i consider it a very even trade in evasion, cause i simply never evade. prime example: in varkas vs the commanders, i can kill them easier in tallum+ogre than i can in DC+rabbit. i take less damage in Tallum+ogre than i do in DC+rabbit. i kill mobs faster in tallum+ogre than in DC+rabbit.
The base stats should not have changed between the update, only the totems. The light is better.
What you did do was fail to juke me.
When you compare sets, you don't use different buffs (or Totems) and then post screenshots hoping someone will not notice.
Too bad I resubbed again. My Tyrant was up to A Grade and I should have just done it myself. You're a waste of time.
I'm gonna let this thread die now :P
EDIT : You never evade cause Varka is still relatively high level for a 74 character. Evasion is also level-dependent. Level in more appropriate places (Varka being level 77 MOBs, you're level 74), and the Evasion benefits will be apparent. I'm pretty sure in some areas of BS the Evasion is very apparent.